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Old 02-03-2007, 13:20   #31
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Except for the water pump rebuild it all seems within the range I would expect from a bussiness. I would do it myself for 1/4 that amount, but then my time has no more value than that I would like to keep it filled with things to do.

If you decide to get a used 4-108...which is what I would recommend, DO NOT leave your old engine behind!!! The stack of parts will be usefull if you have to do repairs on the "new" engine and in fact, since you should be able to find a used engine in fairly good shape for $2500 or so and you would then have an invetory of spares. For cruising you would want a "kit" of spares and having a couple of injectors, the heat exchanger, all the molded hoses, the water and fuel pumps etc. would be very nice.

Some of those spares, like the heat exchanger are very expensive.
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Old 02-03-2007, 13:31   #32
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Now on to the possibility of repower. My other boat has a Volco 2003 Turbo 3 cyl. It uses less fuel than the perkins and puts out 51HP. I like it but the parts are twice what the Perkins parts are.

I have had both the 4-108 and the 6-354 and both are bullet proof. The 6-354 pushed my BR 44 at 8 knots using 1400 RPM. The 4-108 is pushing my GS 36 at 7 knots at 2600 RPM and an 18x13 prop.

Bulletproof??? Wel, I drove the boat from Tampa to Corpus Christi, 1500 miles with a faulty temp guage that was showing 180 when it was actually 220 and using a prop of 19x18 which was WAY over propped. I was running 5 to 5.5 knots at a precieved 180F when it was actually 220F. This abbuse continued for 35 days. I now have a new temp gauge and new prop and from all tests, the engine is in fine shape.
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Old 02-03-2007, 13:42   #33
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Quote:
It uses less fuel than the perkins and puts out 51HP.
Ummmm, no that won't be entirely true. HP in a Diesel is closely linked to fuel dose. OK, there are minor efficiency gains, but they really are minor. To get more Hp, you have to burn more fuel. It really does come down to knowing what Hp rating is being used, which determines how and where it is measured. Otherwise you really are saying that all Green engines are more powerful than Red ones and the Green ones use less Fuel.
It also comes down to how you get that power coupled to the water. One hull will perform differently to another because of hull design, propellor size/pitch/design, the angle it enters tha water at and gearbox ratio. You simply can not say that a Red motor works better because it pushes my blue hull along at X knots and my mates White boat only does y knots and he has a Green motor, so therfore the green motor isn't as good.
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Old 02-03-2007, 16:07   #34
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CSY, If you are getting those kind of RPMs with the transmission engaged I would have the tach checked or see if you lost your prop.
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Old 02-03-2007, 17:23   #35
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Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler
You simply can not say that a Red motor works better because it pushes my blue hull along at X knots and my mates White boat only does y knots and he has a Green motor, so therfore the green motor isn't as good.
Sure I can, I just did...#8-)

But more seriously, the Volvo 2003T is a more eficient engine than the 35 year old Perkins 4-108 design. Of course if I push it to the place where the "T" comes into play the efficiency drops.

The Volvo is a newer design with features not necessarily known 35 years ago. BUT the price is terrible so I prefer to burn a bit more fuel and make up the difference in parts cost. But since the Volvo is already in my other boat I wont be replacing it anytime soon.

I like both engines though I have heard that the Volvo is not as reliable. But I have not yet experienced that. It is lighter built and I doubt that it could have held up to the (unintentional) abuse the 4-108 did on the trip from Florida.
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Old 02-03-2007, 23:04   #36
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Yes you are correct. The latest Generation Diesels are going ot be more efficient than any of the older ones. And probably slightly greater power as well. Purely because the computer controls the Fuel dose and time over the broad range of RPM and work. A "conventional" govoning system will never be as good as the computer.
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Old 03-03-2007, 08:28   #37
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BTW, it wasnt a Red and a Green motor. It was a Blue (Perkins) and a Green (Volvo) motor.....Maybe that is where I went wrong...
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Old 03-03-2007, 09:07   #38
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Wheels,
Gotta argure your point on engine fuel control.
Most sailboat engines are still mechanicly governed. Electronic controls are used on mostly 3L and up. This is generly 150hp and up.
THe benefits from the newer engines are weight, warranty, better IP engineering.
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Old 03-03-2007, 14:43   #39
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Hmmm, OK, I stand corrected. But I thought the latest small Volvo's were electronic controlled. At least that's what I thought Darryl from Seafox just installed. It was 30Hp'ish
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Old 03-03-2007, 15:29   #40
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PDf of the brochure
http://www.volvo.com/NR/rdonlyres/49...0F2/0/D130.pdf
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Old 06-03-2007, 06:02   #41
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I want to thank all that have helped provide insights on this issue. I have decided to repower with a new Yanmar. I would appreciate some thoughts on what the Perkins will be worth for sale, cosidering that it has been bead blasted clean and disassembled?
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Old 06-03-2007, 08:06   #42
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If you need that amount of work done on your engine..ie $7200...not worth it..Something else will invariably break down..and there you go..

What these guys do for their 85 bucks an hour is highway robbery...but you pay for your own ignorance..and unwillingness to do a little sweat equity yourself.. "I learned that lesson the hard way"..then exercise a bit of common sense."There is always plenty of work for a good diesel mechanic"..Nothing to deep pocket guys..who don't have time to figure out a wrench from a screwdriver.."Those guys are out there making a thousand dollars an hr..with their time.."get the idea"

Best to look around on the web...for a good deal on a new engine..Besides when you sell the boat..a diesel with low hrs..fairly new is far better then telling some guy it was rebuilt.."that means nothing"

Remember you have a SAIL boat...what you want is a good deal on a reliable engine..to stop the cash drain at its source..

I see guys splitting hairs on performance characterizations...I'm sorry but that's one stage separated from contemplating your naval..Get out there and sail with a reliable engine...put the mind on areas relative to reliability and bang for your buck.
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Old 06-03-2007, 10:48   #43
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What is my old Perkins worth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom967
If you need that amount of work done on your engine..ie $7200...not worth it..Something else will invariably break down..and there you go..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom967

What these guys do for their 85 bucks an hour is highway robbery...but you pay for your own ignorance..and unwillingness to do a little sweat equity yourself.. "I learned that lesson the hard way"..then exercise a bit of common sense."There is always plenty of work for a good diesel mechanic"..Nothing to deep pocket guys..who don't have time to figure out a wrench from a screwdriver.."Those guys are out there making a thousand dollars an hr..with their time.."get the idea"

Best to look around on the web...for a good deal on a new engine..Besides when you sell the boat..a diesel with low hrs..fairly new is far better then telling some guy it was rebuilt.."that means nothing"

Remember you have a SAIL boat...what you want is a good deal on a reliable engine..to stop the cash drain at its source..

I see guys splitting hairs on performance characterizations...I'm sorry but that's one stage separated from contemplating your naval..Get out there and sail with a reliable engine...put the mind on areas relative to reliability and bang for your buck.



Tom,

I have always done my own engine work but as I have so many other projects currently in the works with the refit, I decided to farm it out. Now with a $795.00 bill in order to get an estimate for a repair that makes no sense considering the proposed cost vs. a new motor I am not a happy guy. I am planning on having a discussion with the mechanic regarding his bill. Your assesment about mechanics is right on. I am trying to find out what the old Perkins is worth.

CB
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Old 06-03-2007, 11:13   #44
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I don't think you quite get it all though. You are getting a new starter. So take the starter out of the quote. Keep the old one. You are getting a new Alternator. Do the same. Go through and remove all things not required to "recon" the motor. You will find the price will dramaticly drop. This guy is doing a top job. I think he is approaching this a a true pro. Others out there would be very happy to do a very quick recon and return a rusty iron lump to you. It may run, but it is hardly recon'd.
Lets face it, it will be a totaly new engine and just as reliable as any new engine, by the time he has finished with it. With the result of no cost in upgrading and having an engine that although may be a 30yr old design, will probably outlast the new Yanmar.
Or.....How about cutting a deal with the mechanic. Say to him, "if I buy a new engine, will you take the 108 as a trade in and the $795 off the price of the new engine".
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Old 06-03-2007, 13:58   #45
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[quote=Alan Wheeler]I don't think you quite get it all though. You are getting a new starter. So take the starter out of the quote. Keep the old one. You are getting a new Alternator. Do the same. Go through and remove all things not required to "recon" the motor. You will find the price will dramaticly drop. This guy is doing a top job. I think he is approaching this a a true pro. Others out there would be very happy to do a very quick recon and return a rusty iron lump to you. It may run, but it is hardly recon'd.
Lets face it, it will be a totaly new engine and just as reliable as any new engine, by the time he has finished with it. With the result of no cost in upgrading and having an engine that although may be a 30yr old design, will probably outlast the new Yanmar.
Or.....How about cutting a deal with the mechanic. Say to him, "if I buy a new engine, will you take the 108 as a trade in and the $795 off the price of the new engine".[/quote]

Alan,

I really appreciate your willingness to comment on this issue, however I don't know how you can state that a rebuild with an "unknown mechanic", for a motor that is more than 30years old and has sat unused for the last 8+ years will be a totaly new engine. @ $7,600 for the Perkins vs $8,600.00 for a brand new Yanmar package that includes new reduction gear, new intrumentation, new engine mounts, two year worldwide gurantee, more horsepower, less vibration, better fuel economy. I am also in total agreement with the gentleman in this thread who stated that the mechanic had an obligation somewhere "long" before he put 9hrs worth of labor into to discovory to indicate to me that the motor was going to need extensive costly work. In the U.S. we have phrases that go something like "acceptable standard","workmanlike practice" and "normal and customary" and I don't feel that the way this was handled came under any of those headings.

Cheers,

CB
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