Penetrating oil for old bolts/studs on exhaust manifold

[Canibul]

Originally Posted by AZ-Oldguy

So, once steel studs are removed from a hot running part like a manifold, would you want to use anti-seize of any sort during assembly to make the part easier to remove in the future? Or would the heat of operation cause problems?

I would think that a graphite (carbon) based anti-seize would be immune to the kind of heat an engine produces.

Or does it turn to diamond? I forget.

[hellosailor]

Antiseize i.e. "Never Seize") is designed to withstand heat. I've used it on exhaust system parts, and they come apart cleanly after years of heat. I've also used it on spark plug threads--and that's sitting directly on the relatively uncooled cylinder.


But using antiseize usually means different torque specs, and different manufacturers may have differing opinions on using antiseize, compensating for it, or preferring to use rust, the original thread locking compound.


Antiseize does migrate like crazy, though. Use sparingly, even parsimoniously, because it finds a way to get onto every hand, finger, tool, rag, gasket that is near it. And since it also conducts...you don't want it near ignition systems without great care.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Antiseize does migrate like crazy, though. Use sparingly, even parsimoniously, because it finds a way to get onto every hand, finger, tool, rag, gasket that is near it. And since it also conducts...you don't want it near ignition systems without great care.

Isn't that like the first or second law of marine maintenance? Any type of goop used in any boat job will preferentially stick to fingers, tools, upholstery, varnished woodwork, your wife, the dog or anything else within a 5' radius except the item to which you want to apply that goop.

[captain58sailin]

The nickle version is called "Nical" and it makes it's way everywhere like regular Never Seize, I always take a couple of rags to the scene of the crime and still end up getting it where I don't want.

[a64pilot]

There is a high heat anti seize, used on Aircraft spark plugs etc., either graphite or lead based. You know which when you pick it up.
But studs are usually put in with red Loctite, and Loctite works as an anti-seize too as it seems to seal the threads and prevent corrosion.
I hope to soon put in 41 1/4-20 SS bolts in my mast to hold a whisker pole track soon, and I have a 2 ounce cup of Tefgel to use, although I was told to use red Loctite. I assume the Tefgel will make removal one day easier?


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[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

PB-Blaster or a 50/50 mix of auto transmission fluid and acetone, and intermittent heat and lots of soak time

OT - Penetrating Oil

Penetrating oil ..... Average load

None ...................... 516 pounds
WD-40 ................... 238 pounds
PB Blaster .............. 214 pounds
Liquid Wrench ...... 127 pounds
Kano Kroil ............. 106 pounds
ATF-Acetone mix....53 pounds

That test came out a while ago. After it came out I tried the ATF / Acetone mix. It works ok, and is pretty cheap per oz, but not as good as they make it sound. I have gone back to Kroil, Thrust and PB.

In the real world I still find PB Blaster to be one of the all around best, especially for the price. I also find that non "scientifically rusted" nuts, studs bolts etc. come free much better with PB or Kroil than the ATF / Acetone mix.... Kroil used to be great but the cans I get today are not what I feel it used to be, don't know why, though it is still pricey..

A few years ago after reading about the ATF/Acetone I was doing the brake rotors on my wife's Honda Pilot. The set screws that hold the rotors on are notorious for rusting in place, as are the caliper bolts. After two hours of soaking the right side in ATF / Acetone I had only stripped the Phillips heads of the set screws, even with an impact screw driver. One of them finally broke (Doh'!). I blasted the remaining one with PB and waited about 5 minutes. The one unbroken screw came right out with a quick blast of the impact driver despite having almost no grip left to it. I sprayed the snapped one and put my Knipex pliers on it and was able to get it out.

On the left side I simply sprayed with PB, waited five minutes, and both set screws backed right out with no damage to the heads..... These of course were not "scientifically rusted" on and had been naturally rusted, by real Maine winters...

Thrust is also an excellent product but hard to find. Liquid Wrench makes numerous products and I find one of them to do marginally okay but not the others. Can't remember which one I like though..

Another old timers trick is Coca Cola.. I still have my ATF / Acetone mix but find I use it very rarely because PB Blaster rarely lets me down...

[hellosailor]

If red Loctite is used properly, meaning, both thread and socket are surgically clean and dry, and the Loctite itself is fresh (it goes bad about 2 years after manufacturing, depending on heat, moisture, oxygen), then red Loctite is forever. And you'll need to torch it, to break it down, in order to remove those parts.


Or so they say. I've also had parts just spin apart as if it was Vaseline...no idea why.


But yeah, tefgel would be a better idea if you wanted a higher probability that the parts would come apart without the torch and real big hammer.(G)

[a64pilot]

Yeah red Loctite says right on the bottle that it will take excess force and or heat to remove it, reason I'm going with the Tefgel.
I rarely ever use red, usually go with blue, red for studs that you don't want to come out.
As I said before I stick with PB Blaster myself, I guess out of habit as I've used it for a long time, but I figure the ATF and acetone is real easy to get around boats. PB Blaster can be hard to find, and I have never seen Kroil for sale


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[brianlara 3]

Mercedes Benz workshops, worldwide, (ie trucks,cars,diesel,petrol) only use WURTH products. German stuff, not cheap but fantastic, releases all threads howsoever frozen. If it's in OZ surely its everywhere else.
As an anti sieze, molybdenum disulphide, is sold in OZ as Molybond. Intended for use in assembling coal fired boilers. Bolts, studs etc when assembled with molybdenum will never sieze. Been using it for 60 years (helping my Dad as a 9 y/o junior engineer). God those days were good.
FWIW.

[hellosailor]

"and I have never seen Kroil for sale"
And you probably never will, unless the owners reconsider their "direct sales only" policy. There is no authorized resale of Kroil from any other source, except direct, last time I heard from them.
Could be a good fallback product for local drug dealers, in case their usual lines are legalized.(G)

[Dymaxion]

I've had good luck with "Moovit" penetrating oil. Propane torch can be a big help. Not a fan of "easy-out" tools, don't seem to work for me. In the extreme, after snapping or often sawing the head off the bolt I'll drill out the shank until I can use a reverse drill. The heat from drilling plus thinning the bolt from inside out by drilling progressively larger holes helps get things moving, then the reverse drill and using the hammer drill setting in my cordless drill works wonders. Frozen nuts get the Dremel cutting disc treatment almost immediately, if large then drill the nut face near threads and split off with a small sharp chisel. Removing stuck fasteners is the the least rewarding task I can think of, basically unproductive work.

[jongleur]

Has anyone tried using the non-cutting
edge of one of these tools against the
bolt while trying to unscrew the bolt?

http://www.feinus.com/en_us/oscillating/

I have a broken stainless bolt stuck into my
diesel's block at the bottom of the water
circulating pump. It has 5 bolt holes, so I have
mounted the pump with just 4 of the bolts.
We tried heat and PB blaster to no avail.
The 4 bolts seem to be enough for now.

[HappyMdRSailor]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

"and I have never seen Kroil for sale"
And you probably never will, unless the owners reconsider their "direct sales only" policy. There is no authorized resale of Kroil from any other source, except direct, last time I heard from them.
Could be a good fallback product for local drug dealers, in case their usual lines are legalized.(G)

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&key...l_2k4ruwn6ry_b

[hellosailor]

I would call that "outsourcing our fulfillment department" since the seller appears to still be Kroil. Amazon just does the fulfillment, and there's still no retail location to buy it from, in that case. Although they show two sellers (Kano /vs/ Kano Labs) I think that's just sloppy web page editing and it is still Kano themselves doing all the selling.


You still can't go someplace and buy the product, unless you zip out to Kano themselves, can you?


Nope, pigs ain't got wings, yet.


I think Amazon takes 1/3 off that kind of sales (non-Prime) and that still allows Kano to beat the usual 50% retail markup though. Means they don't have to spend as much time on the phone, either.(G)

[svfraidknot]

i use the atf acetone mixture ,, i mix it as i need it for application i have two ways i use an eye dropper with glass tube for easy to reach applications and a simple plastic straw pinching off the end and releasing for harder places .. kiss is my moto ..