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Old 12-12-2015, 08:18   #16
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Re: Penetrating oil for old bolts/studs on exhaust manifold

Mouse Milk

Mouse Milk Penetrating Oil
Want some cheese with that whine?
Complaints are common for those hard pressed to get oil to reach tiny crevices. We don't blame anyone. After all, there are dozens, if not hundreds, of nooks and crannies inside your aircraft. Hardware is not hard to find as thousands of studs, nuts and bolts are fastened to keep you together while flying high. Sometimes they become oxidized and rusted, frozen or corroded. Prevent or treat such unpleasantries with Mouse Milk penetrating oil.

Mouse Milk works quickly to sneak into spaces you can't reach. It can free up cables, linkages, bolts and more; it's the perfect creeping oil to use when you need a lubricant or penetrant. It can withstand temperature extremes-hot or cold. This oil is also versatile as it is incredibly effective when used as a cutting fluid when you're drilling, tapping or turning metals.

Don't play cat-and-mouse with corrosion. Next time, reach for this item. It's penetrating, it's powerful, its Mouse Milk!

Shelf Life
Mousemilk when not exposed to light is a brown liquid with a slight green tint when poured. It has a distinctive toluene solvent odor. The shelf life times are based on product that is stored at temperatures not exceeding 80 degrees and not exposed to direct sunlight.
Closed Container: After exposure to light for 60 days the oil will develop a light brown tint. The color change does not affect the product effectiveness as a penetrating oil or lubricant. The product remains effective, when stored in a closed container, for 10 years.

Opened Container: Product will develop light brown tint within 30 days. Airborne particles will contaminate the product and the volatile ingredients will dissipate rapidly. Product will become ineffective as penetrating oil after 30 days.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ-Oldguy View Post
Hello there forum members.
I would appreciate any recommendations for penetrating oil for manifold bolts or studs. I haven't started to remove these, but I want to start out right as these are possibly in there for 35 years and there is a lot of rust on the old raw water manifold. I will be using hear (possibly a welder) to expand the bolts, but I would like to let them soak for some days ahead of time. Any other suggestions would be appreciated.
Cheers, Glenn
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Old 12-12-2015, 08:36   #17
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Re: Penetrating oil for old bolts/studs on exhaust manifold

Thanks for the info guys. I usually reach for kroil, we use it at work (comes in 55 gallon barrels) but acetone and ATF are much easier to find where my boat is.

Also, I haven't found a way to roll a barrel through security yet.

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Old 12-12-2015, 08:37   #18
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Re: Penetrating oil for old bolts/studs on exhaust manifold

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Originally Posted by Canibul View Post
Now, if I can just find a way to free a stainless bolt cemented into a through-hole in an aluminum stanchion base. What dissolves aluminum oxide?
I have a bunch of SS bolts in various AL parts (mast, cast AL hatch frames, etc) that I have been dealing with so spent a good bit of time researching this question. So far Mr. Google has not come up with an answer.

In a previous thread a member claimed great results with extreme heat on the bolts. He would use jumper cables to a battery, ground to the frame or body of the AL part and short the + to the end of the bolt for a few seconds. I tried it with a couple of bolts that were self welded into one of my hatches and did nothing at all. Even after several heatings to the point of glowing red bolt end and weeks of repeated soaking with PB Blaster alternated with heat from a torch and then more PB Blaster. Finally ended up drilling them out, about an hour each at a really awkward angle and a complaining back for a few days.

If you find anything that will break the AL/SS bond please, please tell me.
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Old 12-12-2015, 08:57   #19
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Re: Penetrating oil for old bolts/studs on exhaust manifold

I can not claim to be an expert but I don't think there necessarily is any "stainless steel / aluminum bond" I think aluminum expands when it oxidizes, as steel does, but unlike iron oxide, aluminum oxide is very hard and does not break loose easily.

My experience is, aluminum softens at a much lower temperature than stainless steel - must be something online to verify that - so when you heat up the stuck bolt, I think you are actually heating the aluminum until it gets soft enough to let the bolt go. And that does mean a lot of heat, but because the aluminum will disperse the heat very rapidly, you have to get the entire piece hot - can't do that near fiberglass very well.

Also, I definitely vote for Kroil - and you do not have to buy it in 55 gallon drums - though it is pricey, you should not be using too much anyway. You can order a gallon at a time with a squirt can from Kano in Tennessee - Nashville or Knoxville I think . Not, the machinist' test showed it better than all the rest - much better than PB - and acetone is highly flammable - on the other hand, it will evaporate in a few minutes, but make sure the fumes are gone before using a torch.


If anyone has suggestions about dealing with stainless in aluminum that d
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Old 12-12-2015, 09:11   #20
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Re: Penetrating oil for old bolts/studs on exhaust manifold

Another tip - there is a product called a "Zoom Spout" which is just a little plastic squeeze bottle you put whatever type of oil you want into, that has a long flexible but semi rigid plastic hose for a spout.

You can reach up about a foot and a half to oil a spot you can not otherwise reach and either lubricate it or put penetrating oil on it - Kroil does not seem to dissolve the plastic, don't know about other products.

This thing is great to have for anyone who dose anything themselves - because even if the part is very open, you can squeeze very lightly and put on just a drop which is very difficult with any other system, even a plastic 3 in 1 squirt bottle is not as good for that.
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Old 12-12-2015, 09:25   #21
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Re: Penetrating oil for old bolts/studs on exhaust manifold

What kind of container do you put AT/acetone in. Will it dissolve a simple plastic applicator type squeeze bottle like an old eye drops or maybe an empty mustard bottle???
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Old 12-12-2015, 10:04   #22
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Re: Penetrating oil for old bolts/studs on exhaust manifold

i have tried every thing and the mixture works better than any commercial penetrate . i keep an old empty gas treatment container with the narrow neck and mix it as i use it because the acetone does evaporate fast ,, one of the reasons it works so well the acetone carries the fluid into the cracks and threads ..
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Old 12-12-2015, 10:11   #23
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Re: Penetrating oil for old bolts/studs on exhaust manifold

I think heating works better than cooling for releasing a nut. The outer circle will expand more than the inner one if the materials are the same. On the other hand, aluminum has a higher linear expansion than steels, per degree. I think that means that an aluminum nut would release easier when heated...on a steel bolt.

As far as dissolving aluminum oxide. I think this depends a lot on the crystal structure of the oxide. And I'm not sure what the structure is of aluminum oxide that comes from exposure to air in a salty atmosphere. I think I'd try some mild acids and a lot of time and occasional heat. Maybe citric or oxalic acid. They will form complexes with the Al (3+) and perhaps aid in dissolution. I know that oxalic is a great help in dissolving iron oxide (rust) because it complexes the iron. I've got an aluminum boat hook that needs some cleanup so maybe I'll try oxalic acid next week.

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Old 12-12-2015, 10:31   #24
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Re: Penetrating oil for old bolts/studs on exhaust manifold

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Originally Posted by boatbrain View Post
I can not claim to be an expert but I don't think there necessarily is any "stainless steel / aluminum bond" I think aluminum expands when it oxidizes, as steel does, but unlike iron oxide, aluminum oxide is very hard and does not break loose easily.
Metallurgicaly I don't know exactly what's going on or the proper terminology for it but it is certainly more than the AL oxide expanding to tighten around the SS bolt. The last one I dealt with even after I had drilled out the bolt I had to go back into the hole with a tap and cut out the bits of SS thread from the bolt left in the hole and even the small pieces left did not come out easily.

I have seen this dozens and dozens of times where SS bolts are used in AL without some kind of goop to electrically isolate them. After a few years in salt water the two pieces become as one. Sometimes you can get them out with one or more of the techniques mentioned in this thread but I have encountered far to many that the only solution was to drill it out.
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Old 12-12-2015, 10:39   #25
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Re: Penetrating oil for old bolts/studs on exhaust manifold

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Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post
Anyone have some comparative tests for products which use cold in order to break things free? Like, say, Loctite Freeze & Release. Or any of the DIY methods for radically dropping the temp of frozen parts, in order to shrink them a bit & break them free?
Obviously, there's the drawback of very cold metal being more brittle, but... if the technique works.

a64pilot, THANKS for all of the informative info herein. That comparative test which you provided is great! To date, I've been a Kroil fan, but I'll give a couple of those others a try.
I've not used the Locktite freeze. However , I have used both ice (frozen water) and dry ice ( co2 nuggets) I've heated nuts on studs with oxy/acetylene torch to red hot and then remove the nut with pneumatic tools set up nearby and ready for quick access for best results. The freeze method works best on hex head cap screws(bolts). I heat the bolt first and then quickly apply a dry ice pellet to the head. ABSOLUTELY USE InSULATED LEATHER GLOVES for this ! A pliers works well to pinpoint the pellet. The ice shrinks the bolt to the point of almost be able to remove by hand.
This method of shrinking with dry ice is used commonly in machine shops for shrinking bushings for installation without hydraulic presses, depending upon tolerances of course.
When the corners of the heads or nuts are compromised, welding a nut on top works well with 110volt mig. And you can still use the shrink method as the welding heats the bolt enough to shrink it.
I've used this method often on manifolds, water pumps, even household water heater elements removal. It usually works.
I recall having to drill out a broken bolt in a threaded cast flanged manifold for lack of torch or welder or ice. Not fun by comparison...
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Old 12-12-2015, 10:55   #26
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Re: Penetrating oil for old bolts/studs on exhaust manifold

I'm not sure any penetrant will actually get into the threads. You will have to decide that. It seems rare for those type of bolts to seize fortunately. (assuming its a diesel)
I have found that an impact wrench set to low loosens that type of bolt well as it is a shocking force rather than a brute force tool. Shock loads are more persuasive.
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Old 12-12-2015, 14:47   #27
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Re: Penetrating oil for old bolts/studs on exhaust manifold

Vinegar dissolves aluminium oxide.
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Old 12-12-2015, 15:06   #28
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Re: Penetrating oil for old bolts/studs on exhaust manifold

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Metallurgicaly I don't know exactly what's going on or the proper terminology for it but it is certainly more than the AL oxide expanding to tighten around the SS bolt. The last one I dealt with even after I had drilled out the bolt I had to go back into the hole with a tap and cut out the bits of SS thread from the bolt left in the hole and even the small pieces left did not come out easily.

I have seen this dozens and dozens of times where SS bolts are used in AL without some kind of goop to electrically isolate them. After a few years in salt water the two pieces become as one. Sometimes you can get them out with one or more of the techniques mentioned in this thread but I have encountered far to many that the only solution was to drill it out.
Yeah, the Al Oxide sticks in t he bolt threads too, almost impossible to get out.
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Old 12-12-2015, 15:20   #29
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Re: Penetrating oil for old bolts/studs on exhaust manifold

We used old fashioned Mystery Oil and WD-40( or LPS2) and let the nuts soak for two weeks, applying fresh oil daily. Came off like a champ.
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Old 12-12-2015, 15:22   #30
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Re: Penetrating oil for old bolts/studs on exhaust manifold

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Yeah, the Al Oxide sticks in t he bolt threads too, almost impossible to get out.
Sometimes metals will cold weld themselves together and nothing but nothing will loosen them. For manifolds they might even hot weld themselves together if it gets hot enough, and then you need to cut, drill, and sledge.
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