Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 13-01-2020, 21:17   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 33
Overheating engine. Not sure how to proceed.

Hey there. This is my first yatch. Roberts 32 and I've got very little engine experience. Any engine. At all.
We were out, got stuck on a sand bank, dislodged eventually and motored home. Engine started overheating according to the gauge within two minutes. Unfortunately I don't know if it was doing this before the sand bank because I at that point found out my lovely partner had been motoring with instruments off! Should have checked on him down below. Great.

Anyway got her home had a look and my impeller wasnt broken but was squashed. Ordered a new one just in case and put the impeller back in right. Turned engine on. Overheated again. Checked the impeller and it's done it again. Repeated this two more times with the impeller looking like this each time.


So looking at that I assume I have a swollen housing and either need to sand it down or buy a new pump?


Next problem. The damn thing is impossible to get off the hoses because you can't unscrew then from the pump end due to space. Not sure how they were put on to begin with. Already unmounted the pump just need to take the hoses off.... preferably without cutting. Any help is welcome. Same hose on both sides. Black corrugated with a screw attachment that seems to say hanen on it. I have spare corrugated hose but not those attachments. Not even sure where to get them.


And finally. I've only just.noticed. there's a piece of hose that leads to nowhere on this thing! Is that right? The old owner of the boat is a....well I don't want to swear that much but suffice it to say he's a lying lemon selling crook who managed to piss of a whole sailing club. He'll get his. Anyway. Because of him I can't trust anything I see on this boat. The wirings shot. It's like he didn't know what stainless was. Or marine grade ply. Or engine maintenance. Or antifouling. Or anything really. I could go on but the cooling system is today's problem. If you look close. It's the clear hose that leads of the red hose that just...ends in mid air?


Here's a picture of the engine for completeness. It's a Lister hw3m. Not even a common easy engine to deal with.
[url=https://ibb.co/MS5d6ht][/url
__________________

Juggles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2020, 21:27   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bellingham
Boat: Outbound 44
Posts: 7,885
Re: Overheating engine. Not sure how to proceed.

Have you checked tbe exhaust waterflow? Do you have a decent output flow? If so, its not the water pump">raw water pump.

Getting a cheap IR temperature sensor can be really helpful in tracking down cooling issues.
__________________

Paul L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2020, 21:36   #3
Registered User
 
Dsanduril's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Petersburg, AK
Boat: Outremer 50S
Posts: 2,435
Re: Overheating engine. Not sure how to proceed.

And believe or not, that’s mostly how an impeller should look! As the impeller rotates a little bit of water gets trapped between each vane. When it gets to the top (in your picture) that little pocket gets squished and the water is forced out of the pump. You can see the little wedge piece in the pump, that is removable so that when it is worn and the impeller gets too loose you can replace the wedge without taking out the pump. My guess would be that the pump shaft has not turned since that impeller was installed, so unless you just installed it....

Having said that, the vanes on the impeller should all be bent the same way. The pump only rotates one direction. With vanes pointing both directions something is wrong. You can turn the engine over with the starter and the cover off the pump to watch rotation, then take out the impeller and put it in so the vanes all point the right direction. If the pump doesn’t rotate when you test then there’s a problem with the pump shaft/shaft drive in the engine.

[edit] or the key that belongs in the impeller to get it to turn with the shaft was omitted
Dsanduril is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2020, 21:46   #4
Registered User
 
Dsanduril's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Petersburg, AK
Boat: Outremer 50S
Posts: 2,435
Re: Overheating engine. Not sure how to proceed.

Here’s a picture from MarineHowTo



And a link to their article on pump rebuilding
Dsanduril is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2020, 21:53   #5
Moderator
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 15,429
Re: Overheating engine. Not sure how to proceed.

Re the vanes on the impeller: this is a common occurrence. When you shut the engine down it often will "bounce" backwards a few degrees of crank revolution as it stops, and that scrambles the vanes, just as you have shown.

To check, leave the cover off and crank the engine briefly (with kill switch or fuel cut off engaged so it doesn't start). See if the vanes don't sort themselves out with the first forward rotation.

then, do as Paul has suggested (and you may have already done): check the output of water from the exhaust.

Oh... you don't say, but I expect that the engine is raw water cooled. That is, no heat exchanger is involved... just water in to the engine and out through the exhaust. One thing that can go wrong with such engines is a mineral salt buildup inside the coolant passages in the head and block. This interferes with the heat transfer from engine to water and can lead to overheating. The usual treatment for this is to cycle a fairly strong solution of Hydrochloric acid (muriatic acid) through the engine. You will hear a lot of boiling and bubbling inside as the salts are dissolved. Keep doing it until such sounds disappear. This is a normal maintenance procedure with raw water engines.

You mentioned that you first noticed the overheat after struggling to get of a shoal. sometimes in such situations you stir up a lot of sediment and weed from propwash, and that junk can get sucked up into the cooling water intake, and thence into your raw water strainer where it can restrict water flow...s o check for that. Could also have gotten into the engine itself, adding to any salt buildup.

I'm not specifically familiar with Lister engines, and the photos are not too clear to me, but hoses are often difficult to remove. Heating up the ends with a hair dryer or heat gun or even boiling water softens them and often helps with removal. When all else fails, out with the knife! They likely need replacing anyway...

No more ideas right now, so good luck and come back with a smile or with more questions.

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II now in the Kettering/Bruny island region replacing our broken 30 y.o. genoa furler.
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2020, 22:07   #6
Bailing as fast as I can.
 
GILow's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Boat: Swanson 42
Posts: 5,769
Re: Overheating engine. Not sure how to proceed.

So, Ill repeat the advice that the impeller looks fine and the squashed bit is how it should be.

Now the possibly rude question... is the raw water seacock ON? I ask because someone here at my marina was told theyd need a whole new cooling system for their engine and it turned out the raw water feed seacock was off, as it should be when the boat is not in use.

To trouble shoot this one, Id break it down a little.

A) is there water coming out the exhaust at all?

If no, then youve got a full blockage or a failed component somewhere. (Crushed or cracked hose for instance, maybe a closed seacock as mentioned earlier.)

If there is water coming out, then how much? Put a bucket under the outlet with the engine idling. It varies from engine to engine but mine will fill a bucket in about 30 seconds.

If yes, how much water? If its just a trickle Id be looking at hose constrictions, fouling of the raw water intake and maybe a blocked strainer. Most engines, even when cold, allow full water flow to keep the exhaust cool (they just prevent cooling flow through the block using the thermostat) so engine temperature should not affect the flow rate much.

B) depends on what you found in A, but report back and you are bound to get some good advice.
__________________
Count-down has commenced.
GILow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2020, 23:09   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Slidell, La.
Boat: Morgan Classic 33
Posts: 1,856
Re: Overheating engine. Not sure how to proceed.

Check all the things listed above, especially those related to actual water flow out the exhaust, but also check that the impeller is correct for the pump. The backwards facing blades are a common result of engine compression turning the engine slightly in reverse on shutdown, but the compressed clearance of the blades looks too close to the hub.

There may be some numbers stamped on the cover plate that will assist in determining the actual manufacturer of the pump and verification of the correct impeller. Chance are near 100% that Lister is not the original manufacturer.

I could find no information of the engine or impeller, besides the listing of the engine, so you may have to resort to actual human to human communication to sort it out...
jimbunyard is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2020, 00:16   #8
Registered User
 
Trekka's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Boat: CSY33
Posts: 206
Images: 77
Overheating engine. Not sure how to proceed.

In 40 yrs of boating I have never seen a corrugated hose on a cooling water line. I think this whole system is kludged together.

Start at the beginning and trace everything. Inlet sea cock... take a picture. Follow the hose to... hopefully a strainer. Take a picture. Or to whatever the hose connects to, and then onward to the pump. Hose from the pump, follow. Take picture where it ends.

That red hose that ends loose.... follow up to its origin. It may be a drain or overflow line. Or something that should not be lying there. Locate the other end and photograph. Then well know.

With the above done we can see all the cooling system from valve to outside up to the engine block. Good chance problem in there. But if not, we will know whats left to focus on.
Trekka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2020, 10:33   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 98
Re: Overheating engine. Not sure how to proceed.

Clean out thoroughly the water intake. Being grounded often leads to stuff being sucked into the water intake that can lodge anywhere in the cooling system. Even small stones, shells, or in fresh water, a few zebra mussels, can cause overheating.

Good luck!
skipper53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2020, 11:06   #10
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Boat: Contest CS50
Posts: 30
Re: Overheating engine. Not sure how to proceed.

I would first check that the seacock is open and that the strainer is clean and not blocked. easy to do and a easy thing to forget.
sailone3032 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2020, 12:23   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Cary, NC
Boat: Newport 28II, 28'
Posts: 43
Re: Overheating engine. Not sure how to proceed.

In addition to all of the above, check your coolant level and oil level.
Over Budget is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2020, 14:47   #12
Moderator
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 15,429
Re: Overheating engine. Not sure how to proceed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Over Budget View Post
In addition to all of the above, check your coolant level and oil level.
Appears to be a raw water cooled engine, so no coolant level to check...

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II now in the Kettering/Bruny island region replacing our broken 30 y.o. genoa furler.
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2020, 17:52   #13
Bailing as fast as I can.
 
GILow's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Boat: Swanson 42
Posts: 5,769
Re: Overheating engine. Not sure how to proceed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Appears to be a raw water cooled engine, so no coolant level to check...



Jim


Jim, I tried to figure out if it was raw water or fresh water cooled and could not get a handle on it.

Whats the clue here?
__________________
Count-down has commenced.
GILow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2020, 18:14   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bellingham
Boat: Outbound 44
Posts: 7,885
Re: Overheating engine. Not sure how to proceed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GILow View Post
Jim, I tried to figure out if it was raw water or fresh water cooled and could not get a handle on it.

Whats the clue here?
Just to throw in another possibility, I had a friend with a small Lister similar to the OPs and it was a dry stack installation.
Paul L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2020, 18:56   #15
Certifiable Refitter/Senior Wannbe
 
Wotname's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: C.L.O.D.
Posts: 10,121
Re: Overheating engine. Not sure how to proceed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Appears to be a raw water cooled engine, so no coolant level to check...

Jim
Quote:
Originally Posted by GILow View Post
Jim, I tried to figure out if it was raw water or fresh water cooled and could not get a handle on it.

What’s the clue here?
Hmm... I would expect Jim to be right but.....
it looks like a thermostat housing and an coolant tank and/or a heat exchanger in the last image in the OP.

Also see here
Lister Petter Diesel Engine Identification

The HW3 is radiator cooled and the HW3M says it's water cooled but does not state coolant or raw. The picture suggests a heat exchanger has been fitted in lieu of the radiator.
__________________

__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
engine, heating, overheating

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Possible fraud; how to proceed keelsidedown Challenges 57 30-12-2018 13:42
how to proceed with unused power survivor 35 manual watermaker arch007 General Sailing Forum 2 30-09-2017 22:04
Plumbing from Scratch - How to Proceed Rugger8 Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 2 17-08-2011 14:33
Steering issue-how to proceed???? Help!! projectgator Construction, Maintenance & Refit 17 27-06-2011 12:53
Going for it... A safe way to proceed? cbcat Multihull Sailboats 6 24-07-2007 15:47

Advertise Here


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 17:23.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.