Outboard Driveshaft Scratches Cause Leak?

[OrangeCrush]

I have a new pump base, so I don't need to remove the seals from the old one. I am assembling everything brand new. I can take the old one apart and use it as a guide, however. I'm not sure what the thin tin thing is that you refer to. Is that a part of the seals or is that a part of the pump base? Is it very small and shaped like a washer?

So then if I use the old one as a reference, apply the oil and loctite as indicated, and then use a socket of the same approximate size to push them in to the same depth as the old ones were in, I should be in good shape? Should I put them back to back and then push them in together or push in one from top and one from the bottom until they meet?

Sorry to ask so many questions but the manual is very vague on this point. Also I don't really understand what that little blow-up part of the diagram inside the circle is supposed to tell me. Thanks, this is really helpful.

[knotnow]

In the diagram the two item #24 when you hold them in your hand have a closed flat side and an open side. The two flat sides face each other when installed. You should be able to push the first one in using the back side of a socket or similar round stock that will just and I mean just pass thru the base. The tricky one is the one you push in from the more open side. If your make shift installer cocks it will distort the outside tin of the seal while pushing it in.

Do not use any oil or grease till you have the seals installed so as not to contaminate the area for the Lock tite.

Hope this helps

[OrangeCrush]

Just a thought... what about using one of the old seals to push the new seals into place? It would be the right diameter at least.

How liberally should I be with the loctite before putting the seals in?

Nothing goes in between the two flat sides, correct?

Yes this helps tremendously!

[perchance]

locktite 271 for the seals and 101 lubricant is what we use for Merc. stern drives. The seals can be shifted slightly to avoid the worn area of the shaft. When greasing the splines avoid getting any on the top of the shaft as it can cause hydro locking preventing the shaft from going fully home. Coat the inside of the housing with vaseline to ease the installation of the impeller. Remember to rotate the shaft in the right direction when installing the housing over the impeller.
As a side note; There is a product called a "speedy sleeve" that is used to cover the damaged seal areas on shafts. This product has saved a lot of time and money in that we don't have to have the shaft re chromed and ground to original specs.

[OrangeCrush]

Yeah I came across the speedy sleeve on another forum. Do you guys recommend that for this issue? What is the best way to determine the exact diameter of the shaft?

[perchance]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

Yeah I came across the speedy sleeve on another forum. Do you guys recommend that for this issue? What is the best way to determine the exact diameter of the shaft?

A vernier caliper or micrometer. The shaft will be a nominal size e.g. 3/4 15/16 etc.

[OrangeCrush]

Knotnow,

I am looking at the old water pump base with the seals in it now and I'm confused about something you said. I understand how pushing the seals in crooked would damage the tin backing, but I don't understand how getting the right depth will be an issue. It seems like I will push the first one in until it comes up against the inside lip of the smaller opening, then push in the second one in until it comes up against the back of the first seal. It seems like there is just enough vertical space in there for two seals, so I don't understand how measuring and matching depth will be an issue. Won't both seals be going in the same side of the base, since they won't fit through the other side?

Or am I missing something?

[knotnow]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

Yeah I came across the speedy sleeve on another forum. Do you guys recommend that for this issue? What is the best way to determine the exact diameter of the shaft?

How about a close up picture of the shaft in that area.
I've used repair sleeves before but not on that area. They can be a real bit.h pressing them down that far without destroying them or the install tool. Oh ya ya got to buy one of those too.

[knotnow]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

Knotnow,

I am looking at the old water pump base with the seals in it now and I'm confused about something you said. I understand how pushing the seals in crooked would damage the tin backing, but I don't understand how getting the right depth will be an issue. It seems like I will push the first one in until it comes up against the inside lip of the smaller opening, then push in the second one in until it comes up against the back of the first seal. It seems like there is just enough vertical space in there for two seals, so I don't understand how measuring and matching depth will be an issue. Won't both seals be going in the same side of the base, since they won't fit through the other side?

Or am I missing something?

No you're not missing anything. Have had DYIers not pay attention to a complete install and not get the two seals all the way back to back. Sometimes the driveshafts are only case hardened in and ground in the seal wear areas and getting them off will destroy them. Seems you've gat a good handle on the task. I'm not a big fan of cheating the installed depth unless we are working on a Mercruiser Yoke seal.

[OrangeCrush]

Gotcha. I don't have the shaft with me, otherwise I would have posted a pic.
Based on what everyone said I think the shaft will be fine as is for now.

Thanks, I really appreciate the help.

[OrangeCrush]

Dear Knotnow,

I'm sad to report things didn't go so well with the seal install. I used a socket head to install the first one but there was a lot of resistance. When I applied a little more pressure, it lurched to the bottom of the hole. When I got the other on in it slid down nicely to meet with the first one, and they seemed like they were flush and back to back. Upon close inspection, however, I could see that they were both a little crooked in the hole. I tried to even them out with more pressure on the high side, but the seals got damaged.

(Sigh) I ordered two more seals and another pump base, since I don't see how I can get those seals out now without damaging the plastic around them. At $28 it could be worse. But I am anticipating similar troubles on the second attempt.

I finally found what I think is the right tool for another $28 at this link. The Seloc manual says it's Mandrel #91-13655, but that seems to be unavailable and replaced with 91-13655T.
Mercury Quicksilver 91-13655T INSTALLER TOOL 91-13655T @ MarineEngine.com

Do you think it's worth the cost and wait to get this part, or can you give me any more tips on how to get those seals seated properly without damaging them? If I get the tool, will it be much easier to install them?

Sorry for being so helpless on this issue, but if you could give me any more tips that would be great!

Jack

[OrangeCrush]

I found the tool for $22 and I went ahead and ordered it. Will it be self explanatory or is there anything to know about installing the seals with a mandrel?

[knotnow]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

I found the tool for $22 and I went ahead and ordered it. Will it be self explanatory or is there anything to know about installing the seals with a mandrel?

Well that really stinks that the first shot didn't work well. Don't feel alone without the installer it's a crap shoot. When you get the tool and have any questions just shoot me a PM or post and will get you squared away.

[OrangeCrush]

Great, thanks for both the technical and moral support! I will let you know if the tool confuses me (as everything else seems to do so)...

Jack

[OrangeCrush]

Knotnow,

I'm back again with questions now that I've got new seals and a pump base and the installer tool, which is not exactly what I was expecting.

1)Do both ends of the installer get used? I can imagine using the longer end to push the first seal in, since it will extend through the bottom hole in the pump base and line everything up. Is that what I do for both seals?

2)If this is correct, what should I use to put pressure on the other end (the one with two levels on it)? Is my hand ok, or should I be using something else?

3) You said that I put the loctite on the outer seal diameters first, and put the lubricant on after the seals are installed, correct? Should I use a liberal amount of loctite or just a smidge?

4) Last time I was trying to do it without the tool, I found that slightly warming up the pump base (with a heat gun from a good distance) made it easier to slide the seals in. Is this advisable? The air temp is only in the 50s here now.

Thanks a lot for the help!

Jack