OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale !

[Randyonr3]

You've heard the old quote,
If you cant dazzel um with briliance'
You baffel um with Bull S**t.............

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Hogan

Sigh....
......
....Now a modern J boat with roller furling, a flat bottom, balanced spade rudder, and high aspect keel, spindly rig, and unbalanced sail plan designed to some silly racing rule is another animal completely -
....

And can you name the 'silly race rule' that a J is designed to? Of course you can't, because there isn't one. It isn't a CCA, or IOR or IMS boat, so what is the rule? You really don't have a clue, do you?
A Flicka is a fine boat for what it is designed for. Trying to make it out like the best offshore machine ever designed is just silly. If I had a Flicka, I'd also have a trailer. Then I could take it all over and have some trips.

[mbianka]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Like I've been saying for ever: keep sailing, no matter how bad the conditions are. Engine is auxiliary.

Good advice! Especially since diesel engines have a number of ways they can fail you just when you need them most. Guess how I know?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Paul L

A Flicka is a fine boat for what it is designed for. Trying to make it out like the best offshore machine ever designed is just silly. If I had a Flicka, I'd also have a trailer. Then I could take it all over and have some trips.

A Flicka -- a pretty boat, but not a performance sailer -- with its full keel, fat hull form, and diminutive size, would be just about the last boat in the world I would want to be trying to claw off a lee shore with in a storm. Tacking angle, according to this: http://www.flicka20.com/Articles/About-the-Flicka.aspx is 110 to 120 degrees in ideal conditions. That means that once things get rough and sails get reefed, and the tiny boat is taken aback by big seas, the ability to make any progress at all to windward will be lost very early. The slightest embayment will mean shipwreck. I would not, personally, go out in rough weather in a Flicka without a powerful, reliable engine, or better not at all.


Does the OP know what it means to be embayed?



For every boat, there is a certain wind speed and a certain sea state where it becomes impossible to make any progress to windward. At that point, a lee shore becomes death.

[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by Randyonr3

You've heard the old quote,
If you cant dazzel um with briliance'
You baffel um with Bull S**t.............

+100

I have not seen this level of grandeur in a while.. Purely entertaining...

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

would be just about the last boat in the world I would want to be trying to claw off a lee shore with in a storm.

Just curious.. have you done it with your Moody?

[HappySeagull]

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...tml#post823525 sounds like a pretty good description of a Santa ana to me.But it's not describing a leeshore or being embayed....it's just an aside that's offered.
I'd consider a motorwell instead of the pitching ob scenario (but I haven't got one-seems like a better idea to keep the prop in and the motor safe?) but whatever....if you find yourself wearing on ever tack,maybe it's time to look for the softest beach ....maybe there's a point with a bit of an eddy too,either to beach or hug.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

Just curious.. have you done it with your Moody?

I am sorry to say that I have indeed made the mistake of getting a little too close to a lee shore in rough weather, and had to sail hard to get searoom.

My Moody, with her 75' tall mast, bulb keel with 8 tons of lead, and 46' foot waterline, does go to windward pretty well.

When the wind gets up over 30 knots, I have to take in the large yankee jib and use the staysail. Tacking angle goes up, but I can make progress to windward up to 40-45 knots or so.

[TeddyDiver]

Thanks.. pretty much what I thought what you say about the wind speeds and WMG.

[Randyonr3]

Something else that dosent really make sence.. the "Santa Anna winds the OP speaks of, blow from east to west, they always have, and thats why people hate them, do to the winds passing from the hot landscape to the ocean, the Santa Annas are a very uncomfortable HOT wind, and as its an off shore wind which would blow you away from the coast of California..
the only lee shore are the Islands of Catalina and Santa rosa off the California coast and if the winds are blowing "Santa Anna" you go to the end of the island and make a turn, your out of trouble..
And if its to hard to (claw off a lee shore) as the OP says, stay on a beam reach and head for Santa Barbara....

you can either fight the wind, or become one with it , trim your sails and enjoy the ride......

[s/v Beth]

Embayed- always willing to improve my vocabulary. Does anyone have a chart/list of boats and the conditions they require to become embayed? It would be useful to know I could make no upwind progress if the waves were taller than say 15 feet and the wind was more than 40 knots...
I can see a three dem. chart with wave height/power and wind strength against the design of certain boats.

[noelex 77]

I spent last night anchored off a lee shore. Nothing dramatic, no gale. The predicted NW winds changed to SW overnight. The anchorage was completely exposed to the S.
This sort of thing happens cruising. The wind was only 20 K so I expect electric would have coped fine leaving the anchorage if necessary, but I would have been worried, and there would not have been much reserve with a small electric motor if the S wind had picked up and made the anchorage untenable. Sailing out of this anchorage at night would not have been sensible.
Small electric motors, or drive systems with limited range do involve compromises. Boats can be sailed and cruised without engines, but there are at lot of difficulties involved.
.

[hummingway]

Originally Posted by s/v Beth

Embayed- always willing to improve my vocabulary. Does anyone have a chart/list of boats and the conditions they require to become embayed? It would be useful to know I could make no upwind progress if the waves were taller than say 15 feet and the wind was more than 40 knots...
I can see a three dem. chart with wave height/power and wind strength against the design of certain boats.

I imagine that to be a hard number to determine. The frequency and shape of the wave would have a big effect and may be part of why embaying occurs since many bays are going to be shallower water and the waves are likely refracting as they enter, some areas you could add the effect of tidal currents if your timing was bad; the same wind/wave condition that sees you successfully sailing away in could be an impenetrable wall of water at the mouth of a bay.

[CaptainDana]

Originally Posted by zeehag

cap dana--- do you have enough anchors and line for kedging self off?/ that makes it a lot less embarrassing--especially in darkness when no one can see ye.....

I do have anchors and kedging skills. I also mix a mean drink!

[sabray]

What the hell are kedging skills? How many should I have on 15 ton 44 foot boat? Are kedging skills available at west marine?