Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 22-11-2011, 17:04   #121
Senior Cruiser
 
Randyonr3's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Beneteau FIRST 42
Posts: 1,836
Re: OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale !

You've heard the old quote,
If you cant dazzel um with briliance'
You baffel um with Bull S**t.............
__________________

__________________
Randyonr3 is offline  
Old 22-11-2011, 18:06   #122
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2005
Boat: Outbound 44
Posts: 4,567
Re: OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogan View Post
Sigh....
......
....Now a modern J boat with roller furling, a flat bottom, balanced spade rudder, and high aspect keel, spindly rig, and unbalanced sail plan designed to some silly racing rule is another animal completely -
....
And can you name the 'silly race rule' that a J is designed to? Of course you can't, because there isn't one. It isn't a CCA, or IOR or IMS boat, so what is the rule? You really don't have a clue, do you?
A Flicka is a fine boat for what it is designed for. Trying to make it out like the best offshore machine ever designed is just silly. If I had a Flicka, I'd also have a trailer. Then I could take it all over and have some trips.
__________________

__________________
Paul L
http://svjeorgia.blogspot.com
Paul L is online now  
Old 23-11-2011, 06:01   #123
Registered User
 
mbianka's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,125
Images: 1
Re: OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale !

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Like I've been saying for ever: keep sailing, no matter how bad the conditions are. Engine is auxiliary.
Good advice! Especially since diesel engines have a number of ways they can fail you just when you need them most. Guess how I know?
__________________
Capt. Mike
mbianka is offline  
Old 23-11-2011, 09:37   #124
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,737
Re: OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul L View Post
A Flicka is a fine boat for what it is designed for. Trying to make it out like the best offshore machine ever designed is just silly. If I had a Flicka, I'd also have a trailer. Then I could take it all over and have some trips.

A Flicka -- a pretty boat, but not a performance sailer -- with its full keel, fat hull form, and diminutive size, would be just about the last boat in the world I would want to be trying to claw off a lee shore with in a storm. Tacking angle, according to this: http://www.flicka20.com/Articles/About-the-Flicka.aspx is 110 to 120 degrees in ideal conditions. That means that once things get rough and sails get reefed, and the tiny boat is taken aback by big seas, the ability to make any progress at all to windward will be lost very early. The slightest embayment will mean shipwreck. I would not, personally, go out in rough weather in a Flicka without a powerful, reliable engine, or better not at all.


Does the OP know what it means to be embayed?

Click image for larger version

Name:	embayed.jpg
Views:	179
Size:	283.7 KB
ID:	33959

For every boat, there is a certain wind speed and a certain sea state where it becomes impossible to make any progress to windward. At that point, a lee shore becomes death.
__________________
Dockhead is offline  
Old 23-11-2011, 10:33   #125
Marine Service Provider
 
Maine Sail's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maine
Boat: CS-36T - Cupecoy
Posts: 3,060
Re: OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randyonr3 View Post
You've heard the old quote,
If you cant dazzel um with briliance'
You baffel um with Bull S**t.............
+100

I have not seen this level of grandeur in a while.. Purely entertaining...
__________________
Marine How To Articles
Maine Sail is offline  
Old 23-11-2011, 11:25   #126
Registered User
 
TeddyDiver's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arctic Ocean
Boat: Under construction 35' ketch
Posts: 1,826
Images: 2
Re: OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
would be just about the last boat in the world I would want to be trying to claw off a lee shore with in a storm.
Just curious.. have you done it with your Moody?
__________________
TeddyDiver is offline  
Old 23-11-2011, 11:42   #127
Registered User
 
HappySeagull's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: B.C.,Canada
Boat: 29'
Posts: 2,395
Re: OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale !

OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale ! sounds like a pretty good description of a Santa ana to me.But it's not describing a leeshore or being embayed....it's just an aside that's offered.
I'd consider a motorwell instead of the pitching ob scenario (but I haven't got one-seems like a better idea to keep the prop in and the motor safe?) but whatever....if you find yourself wearing on ever tack,maybe it's time to look for the softest beach ....maybe there's a point with a bit of an eddy too,either to beach or hug.
__________________
HappySeagull is offline  
Old 23-11-2011, 12:19   #128
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,737
Re: OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale !

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeddyDiver View Post
Just curious.. have you done it with your Moody?
I am sorry to say that I have indeed made the mistake of getting a little too close to a lee shore in rough weather, and had to sail hard to get searoom.

My Moody, with her 75' tall mast, bulb keel with 8 tons of lead, and 46' foot waterline, does go to windward pretty well.

When the wind gets up over 30 knots, I have to take in the large yankee jib and use the staysail. Tacking angle goes up, but I can make progress to windward up to 40-45 knots or so.
__________________
Dockhead is offline  
Old 23-11-2011, 12:34   #129
Registered User
 
TeddyDiver's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arctic Ocean
Boat: Under construction 35' ketch
Posts: 1,826
Images: 2
Re: OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale !

Thanks.. pretty much what I thought what you say about the wind speeds and WMG.
__________________
TeddyDiver is offline  
Old 23-11-2011, 12:47   #130
Senior Cruiser
 
Randyonr3's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Beneteau FIRST 42
Posts: 1,836
Re: OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale !

Something else that dosent really make sence.. the "Santa Anna winds the OP speaks of, blow from east to west, they always have, and thats why people hate them, do to the winds passing from the hot landscape to the ocean, the Santa Annas are a very uncomfortable HOT wind, and as its an off shore wind which would blow you away from the coast of California..
the only lee shore are the Islands of Catalina and Santa rosa off the California coast and if the winds are blowing "Santa Anna" you go to the end of the island and make a turn, your out of trouble..
And if its to hard to (claw off a lee shore) as the OP says, stay on a beam reach and head for Santa Barbara....

you can either fight the wind, or become one with it , trim your sails and enjoy the ride......
__________________
Randyonr3 is offline  
Old 25-11-2011, 07:47   #131
Senior Cruiser
 
s/v Beth's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
Boat: Valiant 40 (1975)
Posts: 4,066
Re: OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale !

Embayed- always willing to improve my vocabulary. Does anyone have a chart/list of boats and the conditions they require to become embayed? It would be useful to know I could make no upwind progress if the waves were taller than say 15 feet and the wind was more than 40 knots...
I can see a three dem. chart with wave height/power and wind strength against the design of certain boats.
__________________
s/v Beth is offline  
Old 25-11-2011, 08:39   #132
Moderator
 
noelex 77's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Living on dirt waiting for our new yacht to be built.
Boat: Half built Bestevaer.
Posts: 10,618
Re: OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale !

I spent last night anchored off a lee shore. Nothing dramatic, no gale. The predicted NW winds changed to SW overnight. The anchorage was completely exposed to the S.
This sort of thing happens cruising. The wind was only 20 K so I expect electric would have coped fine leaving the anchorage if necessary, but I would have been worried, and there would not have been much reserve with a small electric motor if the S wind had picked up and made the anchorage untenable. Sailing out of this anchorage at night would not have been sensible.
Small electric motors, or drive systems with limited range do involve compromises. Boats can be sailed and cruised without engines, but there are at lot of difficulties involved.
.
__________________
noelex 77 is offline  
Old 25-11-2011, 10:06   #133
Moderator Emeritus
 
hummingway's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gabriola Island & Victoria, British Columbia
Boat: Cooper 416 Honeysuckle
Posts: 6,933
Images: 5
Re: OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale !

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
Embayed- always willing to improve my vocabulary. Does anyone have a chart/list of boats and the conditions they require to become embayed? It would be useful to know I could make no upwind progress if the waves were taller than say 15 feet and the wind was more than 40 knots...
I can see a three dem. chart with wave height/power and wind strength against the design of certain boats.
I imagine that to be a hard number to determine. The frequency and shape of the wave would have a big effect and may be part of why embaying occurs since many bays are going to be shallower water and the waves are likely refracting as they enter, some areas you could add the effect of tidal currents if your timing was bad; the same wind/wave condition that sees you successfully sailing away in could be an impenetrable wall of water at the mouth of a bay.
__________________
“We are the universe contemplating itself” - Carl Sagan

hummingway is offline  
Old 25-11-2011, 19:20   #134
Registered User
 
CaptainDana's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Patuxent River, MD
Boat: MorganByCatalina OutIslandClassic '41
Posts: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeehag
cap dana--- do you have enough anchors and line for kedging self off?/ that makes it a lot less embarrassing--especially in darkness when no one can see ye.....

I do have anchors and kedging skills. I also mix a mean drink!
__________________
CaptainDana is offline  
Old 25-11-2011, 20:05   #135
Registered User
 
sabray's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Wash DC
Boat: PETERSON 44
Posts: 3,169
What the hell are kedging skills? How many should I have on 15 ton 44 foot boat? Are kedging skills available at west marine?
__________________

__________________
sabray is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:50.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.