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Old 16-11-2011, 08:40   #46
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Re: OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale !

I suppose on a scale from almost never to all the time, "clawing off a lee shore" probably trends toward almost never. But, then, so do lots of other things (lightening strikes, survival conditions, etc.) Having said that, I've personally experienced survival conditions and a dockmate of mine had his boat struck by lightening. Go figure.
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Old 16-11-2011, 09:10   #47
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Re: OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale !

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I suppose on a scale from almost never to all the time, "clawing off a lee shore" probably trends toward almost never.
This may be because you're sailing the wrong side of the continent.

In my home waters on the windward side of North America, if you're in the ocean, you're off a lee shore 19 days out of 20.
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Old 16-11-2011, 10:01   #48
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Re: OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale !

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This may be because you're sailing the wrong side of the continent.

In my home waters on the windward side of North America, if you're in the ocean, you're off a lee shore 19 days out of 20.
fair enough.
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Old 16-11-2011, 10:03   #49
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Re: OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale !

as well as being a lee shore, half time, seems , there is gale somewhere on our pacific-- just be prepared and well out to sea and is all good. i do not trust land here--is a magnet for boats
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Old 16-11-2011, 10:05   #50
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Re: OMG!!! CLAWING OFF A LEE SHORE IN A GALE!

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My take is that the phrase "Clawing off a lee shore" is really just shorthand for a multiple of circumstances where an engine is either needed to get the boat "Outta Dodge" ...........or would be bl##dy handy to have as an option!

But you (and me!) have to accept that how a boat is used (within the mass market) has fundamentally changed, even in my lifetime. Time is far more important - and having not only mod cons aboard, but also conveniances .........and for those based within a 9-5 world an engine which can make entire passages at hull speed does have a value. And may well be the difference between owning a boat and not.
Well, I was sure shaking my head a number of times this summer while sailing along:
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I also think it is unwise to put unlimited faith into an iron genny. Especially when I think back to all the times that things failed underway over the years when I had my diesel. Happily, none of those failures never happened with a lee shore nearby. I agree with others always best to try avoid the lee shore situation rather depend on the engine to bail you out.
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Old 16-11-2011, 10:07   #51
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Re: OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale !

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i do not trust land here--is a magnet for boats
And here I thought is was just my boat. Every time I'm not watching the boat starts to head for shore or rocks.
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Old 16-11-2011, 10:11   #52
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Re: OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale !

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This may be because you're sailing the wrong side of the continent.

In my home waters on the windward side of North America, if you're in the ocean, you're off a lee shore 19 days out of 20.
Sounds like he's on the "right" side of the continent to me!
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Old 16-11-2011, 10:26   #53
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Re: OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale !

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To find out what percentage of sailors actually use thier engines to save thier boats in gales against lee shores.

Hard data would be nice
21% percent used their engines
33% percent used their sails
30% had heard the term "lee shore", but didnt know where it was
10% wondered was there a state called Lee and did they have casinos
6% wondered why you were asking them all this, while they drove to the mall.

a number of respondents said they'd give their answer after sailing out and trying it, unusually none have reported their findings or are answering their phones.
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Old 16-11-2011, 10:32   #54
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Re: OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale !

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In the end I doubt an engine is going to help in heavy steep seas. You're gonna have to sail her off. I'd worry more about making sure you dont put yourself in that condition.
This is probably an incorrect statement on my part.... you can certainly be on a lee shore with big seas and little wind. Motorsailing could help in other conditions too.
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Old 16-11-2011, 10:35   #55
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Re: OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale !

we found that in 60+kts north of cabo san lucas that this full keeled wonder lifted her skirts and flew nicely --but we weren't close to land, so we didnt worry as hard--even at the 8+kts we recorded for boat speed. no, we werent using engine...

folks have lost boats on this coast because of not knowing or not respecting this lee shore--yes it DOES have a magnet for boats----
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Old 16-11-2011, 11:50   #56
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Re: OMG!!! CLAWING OFF A LEE SHORE IN A GALE!

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I wonder how well your Flicka 20 would actually tack going head into 40 knots with matching seas - storm sails or not. They aren't known for pointing too high in normal winds.
...Sigh...and so it begins....

No, Its those damned J boats that dont point worth a damn. Flickas go to windward quite well, if you know how to sail them properly, and they bob like a duck over big seas while the "big boats" fight and get hammered by them.

It helps if you have hank on sails - just ask my buddy with the contessa 26, and a 110 on a roller when I've got my 140 hanked on and close hauled.

Or my dockmate with the Yankee Dolphin - A life long offshore racer - who also was unable to walk away from my short, fat, overloaded dumpy little tug boat with the external chainplates in light air.

I'd read the same crap before buying the boat - then in October of 2009, I was caught out in a sudden Northeast gale that had peak gusts of 50knots - 3 miles inland.

Seas were 10 to 15 feet or so, but to be fair, they were with me, as this gale was blowing offshore - so I was in no real danger, except I had a class to teach, and needed to get back in the harbor, which was upwind.

So I tucked in two reefs, and sheeted my smallest sail, an 80% working Jib, INSIDE of the shrouds, and hauled it as flat as I could. Then, I set my tiller pilot, and climbed up on the windward rail, main sheet uncleated and in hand, and luffed the main in the gusts, just like I learned to do sailing and racing dinghys and Lasers.

....and you know what? even in those storm force winds, horribly overcanvansed, she beat to windward like a champ!

sure, it was hell on the main, I was repeatedly knocked down past 50 degrees, and that 80% jib has never been the same since, but I got back into the harbor, and made my class.

Heck, I was so scared I misjudged the breakwater and was unable to lay it, to I had to TACK TWICE to make it back in.

Several other boats - much larger - well, heck, everything is much larger than a Flicka - were motorsailing back in, and their crews looked absolutely terrified as I smiled and waved to them.

I figured they were worried that thier engines were going to quit.

I had a motor too - my POS Suzuki DF6 outboard - but I didnt use it.

Too unreliable to risk my ship on.
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Old 16-11-2011, 12:53   #57
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Re: OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale !

Hey Hoges,

Are you absolutely sure you didn't start this thread just so you could get to the point of telling us that little story? I'm certain you're a good sailor matey, but you dont need to prove that to anyone here.

Personally methinks there's quite a few on this site who in their comments have shown a lot of restraint and given good practical advice. In doing so they've demonstrated they've got a lot more common sense than many might think you have shown - on the water as well as the site.

Continue to sail well, but you might find it's much nicer to sail well with people respecting you, rather than risking the opposite.

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Old 16-11-2011, 13:06   #58
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Re: OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale !

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Hey Hoges,

Are you absolutely sure you didn't start this thread just so you could get to the point of telling us that little story? I'm certain you're a good sailor matey, but you dont need to prove that to anyone here.

Personally methinks there's quite a few on this site who in their comments have shown a lot of restraint and given good practical advice. In doing so they've demonstrated they've got a lot more common sense than many might think you have shown - on the water as well as the site.

Continue to sail well, but you might find it's much nicer to sail well with people respecting you, rather than the opposite.

Cheers
John

Awh! He's just sticking up for his Girl!
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Old 16-11-2011, 13:17   #59
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Re: OMG!!! CLAWING OFF A LEE SHORE IN A GALE!

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...Sigh...and so it begins....

No, Its those damned J boats that dont point worth a damn. Flickas go to windward quite well, if you know how to sail them properly, and they bob like a duck over big seas while the "big boats" fight and get hammered by them.
Last year I was off shore about 25 miles from Cape Mendocino (Northern Cal)in some pretty tough weather in my boat - you know the one that does not point. We had large following seas and 40kts plus. At one point we actually hit 17kts, before we could get the 2nd reef down. Then things were more mellow. There was Flicka just outside of us who decided to put out a sea anchor and wanted the Coast Guard to put out a bulletin to shipping so he wouldn't get run over. The CG took a long time to decide that they would not do the broadcast. By that time it didn't matter as much as the sea anchor parted and the Flicka was back moving. As we moved in closer to shore, yea that would the one to leeward, we worked with the CG to relay the easing conditions inside to the Flicka.
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....Seas were 10 to 15 feet or so, but to be fair, they were with me, as this gale was blowing offshore - .....
So I tucked in two reefs, and sheeted my smallest sail, an 80% working Jib, INSIDE of the shrouds, and hauled it as flat as I could. ....even in those storm force winds, horribly overcanvansed, she beat to windward like a champ!
......Heck, I was so scared I misjudged the breakwater and was unable to lay it, to I had to TACK TWICE to make it back in.
Following seas, 50kts headwinds, I blew two tacks -- and she points like a race boat. Cool.
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Old 16-11-2011, 13:25   #60
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Re: OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale !

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Awh! He's just sticking up for his Girl!
Don't tell me I got it wrong! Hoges isn't a blokes name, is it?

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