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Old 01-12-2011, 08:39   #241
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Re: OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale !

I also own a Flicka and sometimes check the Flicka site. I was sorry when Hogan was gone from there. His posts were always entertaining and informative. He was never mean spirited. Sometimes though I wish he was clearer. He says he is not a "dipshit" but never explains what that is. Is that someone who actually carries a dipper? What kind of a dipper? Where does he empty it? And is there a point to dipping ****? These questions haunt me, perhaps he'll explain.
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Old 01-12-2011, 09:23   #242
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Re: OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale !

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrohr View Post
"The amount of passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real information (or experience) available"
Perhaps, but when you attack someone (or if you like, call them on their B.S.), expect a defense / explanation / some reaction.

Hogan, I'm still puzzling over your "intentional beaching" last-resort strategy. Yes, of course this has been done, and it's better than sinking or drowning, but *in a storm* (which was the context under discussion), this is going to be the absolute last resort, and will probably result in the destruction of the boat. Up here in northern California / Oregon / Washington, the protected sandy beaches are virtually nonexistent. The beaches we have are just about always being hammered with breakers, and the majority of the coast is lined with jagged rocks.

If I'm sinking, and I can't stop the leak I might head for shore. Otherwise, beaching the boat isn't a plan, it's what happens to me when I fail.
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Old 01-12-2011, 09:52   #243
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Re: OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randyonr3 View Post
Something else that dosent really make sence.. the "Santa Anna winds the OP speaks of, blow from east to west, they always have, and thats why people hate them, do to the winds passing from the hot landscape to the ocean, the Santa Annas are a very uncomfortable HOT wind, and as its an off shore wind which would blow you away from the coast of California..
the only lee shore are the Islands of Catalina and Santa rosa off the California coast and if the winds are blowing "Santa Anna" you go to the end of the island and make a turn, your out of trouble..
And if its to hard to (claw off a lee shore) as the OP says, stay on a beam reach and head for Santa Barbara....

you can either fight the wind, or become one with it , trim your sails and enjoy the ride......
The Santa Ana winds ysesterday and today were definately out of the north and at gale force.
CA Weather Alert - weather.com

I'm just saying it can happen. BOB
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Old 01-12-2011, 10:03   #244
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Re: OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale !

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Originally Posted by Sand crab View Post
The Santa Ana winds ysesterday and today were definately out of the north and at gale force.
CA Weather Alert - weather.com

I'm just saying it can happen. BOB
I stand corrected....
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Old 01-12-2011, 10:08   #245
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Re: OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale !

We were going to purchase one of those "electric" motors for our dink.. but after looking at it and the specs, the charging is from a 110 outlet and we dont seam to have one of those on our boat..
Called the distributer about hooking up a 12 volt charge lead off the battery of the unit and was told it was a sealed unit..
decided it was kinda pointless to charge our batteries, to opperate an inverter, to run 110 to charge the battery on the motor..
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:58   #246
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Re: OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale !

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbianka View Post
Arch:

Such negativity about EP. From my personal experience is unwarrented.
Sorry I wasn't clear: I have no problem with EP. I know there are good reliable systems out there, and think that's probably the future of propulsion.

I was speaking to the small electric outboard referenced in the OP.
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Old 01-12-2011, 12:07   #247
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Re: OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sand crab View Post
The Santa Ana winds ysesterday and today were definately out of the north and at gale force.
CA Weather Alert - weather.com
Was Hogan out "practicing" and making videos to prove the mite of his little ship in this??? I'll wait for the video....

Seems like perfect conditions for a Flicka, at least based on what Hogan says about it. Should just bob around on the tops of the waves and be perfectly safe.

Perhaps he put himself on a lee shore in these winds, clawed off and made a video...
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Old 01-12-2011, 18:48   #248
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I love you guys - seriously!

No calls for banning me for my satire from this group, and its fun sparring over semantics and such.

I like to have my beliefes challenged, unlike the comodores over at the Flicka20 Yahoo group. I stopped posting my opinions and observations there because posts like my OP here and subsequent defenses of them were deemed "impolite" by the informal membership board and a waste of time and resources by myself.

After a series of complaints, I wrote the head of the membership comittee and told him I'd no longer post.

So he banned me from posting.
q
So I sent him some really angry hate mail. I mean, really, really angry stuff, because my feelings were hurt.

Everybody wants to feel loved and accepted, even arrogant, concieted ******* know-alls like me.

I did this privately, because I believe hate mail should be a direct and personal thing - something shared only between mortal enemies, something to be cherished like a brief but intense love affair with your best freinds wife.

Frankly, I hate yacht clubs and the snobbery and exclusivity they embody., "Flicka 20 Yahoo group" is an online yacht club in my estimation, not a forum for rough and tumble argument and debate for improving the boat or sharing meaningful information about it.

Rather, its a social support network for armchair and weekend sailors and wannabees, with its values centered on "getting along with others" - which BTW I have always had trouble doing since I'm so intellegent, sucessful, and good looking, and I wouldnt want to belong to any club that would have me as a memeber anyway.

Anyone who thinks I dont respect the power of nature doesnt know me very well. I'll never intentionally put myself or my ship in harms way - and after sifting through all the ad-homenum attacks (I have skinny legs and a small penis too guys! Really, its like a baby's - which saves me a lot on those condoms, and gets me a deep discount at whorehouses)

One very important consideration, namely the very dangerous and proximal lee shore of a marginal anchorage gives me pause, and reminded me again of the importance qof selecting good anchorages, and of having reliable, redundant ground tackle and knowing how to use it, so thanks for that.

The experienced tropical crusiers I've spoken with are unanamous about a couple of things:

You wont regret spending money on oversized gound tackle, a watermaker, and a decent bimini / awning. Dodgers rank fairly highly for mid lattitude offshore folks, but I dont care for how they limit access and vision forward on a Flicka, so I removed mine and sold it. Light air sails rank highly as well. Most value their inboard diesel engines, but also report that they are often a headache, and that when they are most needed, they are most likely to fail. One couple I met had thier entire cruise cut short by over 6 months, preventing them from sailing through the Panama Canal and north to New York, thier original plan, when it was flooded by following seas off Point Conception, and they were unable to find a competent marine diesel Mechanic to fix it - Here in Marina Del Rey no less.

I met the charming young lady who was the skipper while she worked at West Marine trying to earn enough money to pay incompetent mechanic after mechanic who kept misdiagnosing the problem and failing to fix it, as thier dream of cruising the Carribean slowly died along with thier criusing funds.

The couple did not feel confident enough in thier sailing abilities to continue on without that engine, and it was heartbreaking to see this beautiful, kind, intellegent and courageuos young woman and her boyfreind castaway in this s**thole of a city by that "reliable, powerful, essential" diesel engine of thiers.

A small outboard, by definition precludes over-reliance on mechanical propulsion in favor of basic seamanship. It discourages the sort of risk taking like carrying undersized ground tackle and trying to outrun bad weather - that a powerful inboard diesel encourages (they were running before a gale when unbeknownst to them thier crankcase flooded with seawater)

Bruce Bingham, the Naval Architect who designed the Flicka comissioned Pacific Seacraft to build his Flicka for him. In an article from a 1982 Small Boat Journal magazine, he and his wife describe the specifications of his boat, along with the modifications they made to it. It was so heavily built that Bingham took to its interior with a saber saw, (first to go was the inboard diesel mounting pad) and when he was finished, they had sawn over 400lbs of deadwood and fiberglass from it without hurting its structural integrity - this according to Binghams wife, also a naval architect.

I was a licensed architect (buildings, not boats) for over 10 years. I have studied the the boat carefully from a structural standpoint. Its bulletproof - seriously - bullets would have a hard time making it through the 2-1/2" thick plywood and glass bulkhead that seperates the cabin from the cockpit. Its decks are a 1" thick composite of 3/4" marine plywood and 1/8" full roving GRP - on both sides- and the maximum span is around 4' on the foredeck, which is high crowned, giving it additional rigidity. The deck is adhered to the hull with some very agressive adheisive polyurathane, then through bolted every 8" bettween through-bolts there are lag screws attaching the teak caprails.

Its mast is deck-stepped, (So it wont tear a hole through the cabintop if lost) tabernacled, and its about 1/4 thicker, shorter, and stiffer than the masts of the 3 Yankee Dolphin 24s - another legendary small bluewater boat - docked next to her. It is tripple stayed latterally with exteral carrige bolts and (unfortanately) swaged 3/16" type 316 stainless steel shrouds.

The cap shrouds are toggled and through bolted to the masthead just below the truck.

The big production boats I tour at the boat shows each spring flex and pop and groan when I bang on thier bulkheads - whereas banging on a Flicka bulkead results in a thud and a bruised fist.

The list of bluewater passages and cruises completed by Flicka owners is extensive.

Charlie Dewell, who I personally dislike because he was part of the Flicka 20 lynch mob, but whom I respect for his sailing accomplishments, sailed "Kawabunga" from my home port to the Marquessas, then to Tahiti, Palmira, Hawaii, and then up over 40 degrees north lattitude around the Pacific high, where he lay ahull (he says he was too seasick to dig out and deploy his parachute anchor) through a force 9 gale without incident, returning safely to Marina Del Rey.

This South African sailor attempted to sail his Flicka - right after sucessfully circumnavigating a 19 foot open boat - non-stop around the world, via the southern ocean clipper ship route, back in the early 90ies:

http://www.flicka20.com/Portals/30/ff/ff_04_01.pdf

He logged a 137 mile day at one point, claims he saw 9 knots over ground (i've seen 8) and was faster than 40 foot former race boat cruising in company with his "Selected Risks".

He lay hove-to in a 45 knot gale for 36 hours in the alguhas current off south Africa, saying his Flicka "barely noticed" it. Then he rounded cape Alguhas (good hope) in good weather and headed out into the southern Atlantic.

know what aborted his attempt to set the record for smallest boat to navigate non-stop, unassisted via the southern ocean?

His ENGINE.

well, more exactly, his recalcitrant gasoline fueled genset, which took him several frustrating hours to disassemble, troubleshoot, and start, and he was reluctant to shut it down for re-fueling. He stupidly attempted to refuel it in mid ocean, in a seaway, while it was running, and predictably, it went up in flames.

.... and so did he. Still, he managed to reach St. Helena and medical help in 5 days, under sail.

...and he has the class to aknowledge his "stupidy" at ignoring basic safety and seamanship and for "letting the boat down".

There is no mention of a propulsion engine aboard "Selected Risks" and I dont see an outboard in the article photo either. He certainly didnt have a diesel inboard, though one might argue it could have prevented his mishap.

Since there is so much ignorance and predudice here against this fine boat, here is a page full of links proving how capable she is:

http://www.flicka20.com/Publications/Brochures.aspx

This story is my favorite though:

http://www.flicka20.com/Portals/30/b..._tondelayo.pdf

..... Pounding against the bottom in the surf for 5 or 6 hours surrounded by lighting and raked by microbusts and storm surf, and she comes through without a scratch, rudder in tact, bilge bone dry.

Try that in a fin keeled boat with a spade rudder.... The results will be very different, I assure you.

Bingham deemed a 15lb CQR and a 6 hp outboard adequit for he and his wife's 2 years of full time cruising thier Flicka, "Sabrina" in the Bahamas, they crossed the gulf stream without incident, and apparently never dragged anchor and definately never shipwrecked.

I'm not yet contemplating offshore bluewater passages just yet.

My immediate goal is La Paz, Mexico, and I'll not weigh anchor from here or any safe harbor until the weather window is favorable.

The passage is coastal, and can litterally be daysailed, with the exception of the 150 mile passage from Magdelena Bay to Cabo San Lucas - its all downwind, and I'm bringing crew. The crux of this particular journey is supposed to be the passage out to Cedros Island, so you can bet your sweet ..... I'll be extra cautious there, and anywhere inshore for that matter.

Please worry about my motorcycle commuting, not my sailing. I'm so much safer at sea than on land its not even worth debating:

- sadly a well known local MDR marine services businessman was killed last month on his motorcycle - not his boat, his bike.


But I suspect the "concern" for my safety expressed here is really the result of my opinions provoking a very different sort of worry in certain readers - the anxiety and anger that comes from having too much boat, too many "responsibilities" and not enough time to sail her.

You know deep inside that a smaller, simpler boat would get you out of port and experiencing the wider world - but the rot has set in.

The rot is in your mind, if not your ship.

Try taking both out once in a while, opening them up, and letting in some fresh air.
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Old 01-12-2011, 19:52   #249
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Re: OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
Wow, an owner of a Ficka that was actually banned from the owners association!!??? Speaks well to why this thread has gone the way it has..

And c'mon no one wants their a$$ to drown....

Yeah but inflatable pants is pretty darned funny.

All the same, I doubt Flicka owners wanted to be told that their boat couldn't tack and that the anchor locker was inadequate...
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Old 01-12-2011, 20:07   #250
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Re: OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogan View Post
I love you guys - seriously!

Rather, its a social support network for armchair and weekend sailors and wannabees, with its values centered on "getting along with others".
What's wrong with Armchairs?
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Old 01-12-2011, 20:21   #251
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Re: OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale !

The problem with daysailing the Baja is you need to get up at 5 am and motor till the afternoon breeze comes up.Most runs between anchorages are 40 to 80 miles,tough to do before dark,without some motoring.
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Old 01-12-2011, 21:26   #252
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Longtime lurker, first time poster. Wow. Entertaining thread.

I just spent the last hour reading all 17 pages.

Hogan,Ii think your style is what is tweaking folks here. You might want to reel back the twenty paragraph rants.

I did look at you video channel. Nice work! You have a great skill with the editing. Some of them are really lovely.

You mentioned in an early post in this thread about you being able to keep pace with a Yankee Dolphin in moderate breeze. Wow. Hard to believe that that Dolphin was well sailed. Lighter boat, longer LWL, more sail area, plus a lifting centerboard. The Dolphin should walk away from you in most conditions upwind, all being equal.

Saw this vid on your YouTube channel. That sure looks like a Dolphin 24... See the difference? She's pointing 5-7 degrees higher, and going a knot or so faster. What I'd expect in a comparison between a Flicka and a Dolphin to windward.

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Old 01-12-2011, 21:41   #253
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Here's the video from Hogans channel I was referring to. Presuming this was shot from the Flicka. Looks like it

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Old 02-12-2011, 00:43   #254
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Re: OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale !

Yea, well, that was before I hanked on my 140... And Erik is a (rather good) racing skipper. Once I had more sail up I kept pace with him, much to his displeasure.

Thanks for the complements on the videos, my online persona, and writing style - they are appreciated.

=)

but back on topic:

I've been re-reading Dewell's turgid little book about his south seas adventure aboard "Kawabungunga" and am realizing that not only is the Flicka an outstanding, if a bit lively, bluewater boat, but that Charlie understood less about sailing her when he set off than I currently do - and was much less prepared.

Still, "Kawabunga" according to him, rolled along making 130 miles on huge Pacific rollers that "Swallowed a large ship in the distance as she rode up and down them"

he speaks of weathering vicious black squalls, and 4 days of running before a 40 to 45 knot SE gale where "the sea was white with foam" under no headsail and a double reefed main, a basic canvassing error that made the boat prone to broaching, again without incident, before turning to windward after rounding Mataiva atoll, and discovering that a storm jib balanced his boat much better in combination with the reefed main, allowing him to make good 1.3 to 1.6 knots towards his destination, Tahiti, against the force 9 gale and the seas that resulted from it's blowing for 4 days straight.

I'd have hoisted the trysl and storm jib by the time it hit 35 knots - and I'd strike the trysl downwind, and run or reach off with the storm jib sheeted flat to keep her head down wind and steady.

He remarks how much more stable she was with the jib up, something I figured out in the first couple of downwind runs I made in her in strong conditions.

So the boat is forgiving of even big mistakes in extreme offshore gale conditions, and this has been reported by every skipper who's ever encountered them in a Flicka.

Had Chuck shipped and subsequently bent on a trysl, he might have discovered she could make even better progress to windward, because a double reefed main is still too much canvas up, and too far forward for optimal helm balance in the conditions he describes.

Oh, and his inboard Deisel puked all of it's oil into the bilge as it siezed in the ITCZ, giving him his only true scare but not before first destroying his packing gland and creating a persistant leak that he was unable to reliably bail with his one bilge pump (I have 3) because the reliable, powerful, dead, boat holeing diesel engine oil in the bilge kept clogging it.

His fixed VHF died on passage, and he had to summon a tow into Papatte bay with his handheld, because he didn't trust his sailing skills enough to attempt the reef pass without that engine.

So once again, a big, powerful, reliable diesel almost sinks a ship, and proves to be a serious liability at sea. It also played no role in his weathering of a 96 hour severe gale.

So take THAT haters.

And life vests look stupid and are uncomfortable, and do nothing to keep you aboard.

My shorts are baddas, black, have an integral climbing harness, and keep essential gear right next to your penis.

You haters do know how to find your penises with both hands, don't you? Well, i keep my EPIRB and a HHVHF next to mine, right under my life preserving belt.

Everybody wears pants, at least at sea, on my boat.

=D
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Old 02-12-2011, 00:53   #255
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Re: OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogan View Post
I love you guys - seriously!

No calls for banning me for my satire from this group, and its fun sparring over semantics and such.

I like to have my beliefes challenged, unlike the comodores over at the Flicka20 Yahoo group. I stopped posting my opinions and observations there because posts like my OP here and subsequent defenses of them were deemed "impolite" by the informal membership board and a waste of time and resources by myself.

After a series of complaints, I wrote the head of the membership comittee and told him I'd no longer post.

So he banned me from posting.
q
So I sent him some really angry hate mail. I mean, really, really angry stuff, because my feelings were hurt.

Everybody wants to feel loved and accepted, even arrogant, concieted ******* know-alls like me.

I did this privately, because I believe hate mail should be a direct and personal thing - something shared only between mortal enemies, something to be cherished like a brief but intense love affair with your best freinds wife.

Frankly, I hate yacht clubs and the snobbery and exclusivity they embody., "Flicka 20 Yahoo group" is an online yacht club in my estimation, not a forum for rough and tumble argument and debate for improving the boat or sharing meaningful information about it.

Rather, its a social support network for armchair and weekend sailors and wannabees, with its values centered on "getting along with others" - which BTW I have always had trouble doing since I'm so intellegent, sucessful, and good looking, and I wouldnt want to belong to any club that would have me as a memeber anyway.

Anyone who thinks I dont respect the power of nature doesnt know me very well. I'll never intentionally put myself or my ship in harms way - and after sifting through all the ad-homenum attacks (I have skinny legs and a small penis too guys! Really, its like a baby's - which saves me a lot on those condoms, and gets me a deep discount at whorehouses)

One very important consideration, namely the very dangerous and proximal lee shore of a marginal anchorage gives me pause, and reminded me again of the importance qof selecting good anchorages, and of having reliable, redundant ground tackle and knowing how to use it, so thanks for that.

The experienced tropical crusiers I've spoken with are unanamous about a couple of things:

You wont regret spending money on oversized gound tackle, a watermaker, and a decent bimini / awning. Dodgers rank fairly highly for mid lattitude offshore folks, but I dont care for how they limit access and vision forward on a Flicka, so I removed mine and sold it. Light air sails rank highly as well. Most value their inboard diesel engines, but also report that they are often a headache, and that when they are most needed, they are most likely to fail. One couple I met had thier entire cruise cut short by over 6 months, preventing them from sailing through the Panama Canal and north to New York, thier original plan, when it was flooded by following seas off Point Conception, and they were unable to find a competent marine diesel Mechanic to fix it - Here in Marina Del Rey no less.

I met the charming young lady who was the skipper while she worked at West Marine trying to earn enough money to pay incompetent mechanic after mechanic who kept misdiagnosing the problem and failing to fix it, as thier dream of cruising the Carribean slowly died along with thier criusing funds.

The couple did not feel confident enough in thier sailing abilities to continue on without that engine, and it was heartbreaking to see this beautiful, kind, intellegent and courageuos young woman and her boyfreind castaway in this s**thole of a city by that "reliable, powerful, essential" diesel engine of thiers.

A small outboard, by definition precludes over-reliance on mechanical propulsion in favor of basic seamanship. It discourages the sort of risk taking like carrying undersized ground tackle and trying to outrun bad weather - that a powerful inboard diesel encourages (they were running before a gale when unbeknownst to them thier crankcase flooded with seawater)

Bruce Bingham, the Naval Architect who designed the Flicka comissioned Pacific Seacraft to build his Flicka for him. In an article from a 1982 Small Boat Journal magazine, he and his wife describe the specifications of his boat, along with the modifications they made to it. It was so heavily built that Bingham took to its interior with a saber saw, (first to go was the inboard diesel mounting pad) and when he was finished, they had sawn over 400lbs of deadwood and fiberglass from it without hurting its structural integrity - this according to Binghams wife, also a naval architect.

I was a licensed architect (buildings, not boats) for over 10 years. I have studied the the boat carefully from a structural standpoint. Its bulletproof - seriously - bullets would have a hard time making it through the 2-1/2" thick plywood and glass bulkhead that seperates the cabin from the cockpit. Its decks are a 1" thick composite of 3/4" marine plywood and 1/8" full roving GRP - on both sides- and the maximum span is around 4' on the foredeck, which is high crowned, giving it additional rigidity. The deck is adhered to the hull with some very agressive adheisive polyurathane, then through bolted every 8" bettween through-bolts there are lag screws attaching the teak caprails.

Its mast is deck-stepped, (So it wont tear a hole through the cabintop if lost) tabernacled, and its about 1/4 thicker, shorter, and stiffer than the masts of the 3 Yankee Dolphin 24s - another legendary small bluewater boat - docked next to her. It is tripple stayed latterally with exteral carrige bolts and (unfortanately) swaged 3/16" type 316 stainless steel shrouds.

The cap shrouds are toggled and through bolted to the masthead just below the truck.

The big production boats I tour at the boat shows each spring flex and pop and groan when I bang on thier bulkheads - whereas banging on a Flicka bulkead results in a thud and a bruised fist.

The list of bluewater passages and cruises completed by Flicka owners is extensive.

Charlie Dewell, who I personally dislike because he was part of the Flicka 20 lynch mob, but whom I respect for his sailing accomplishments, sailed "Kawabunga" from my home port to the Marquessas, then to Tahiti, Palmira, Hawaii, and then up over 40 degrees north lattitude around the Pacific high, where he lay ahull (he says he was too seasick to dig out and deploy his parachute anchor) through a force 9 gale without incident, returning safely to Marina Del Rey.

This South African sailor attempted to sail his Flicka - right after sucessfully circumnavigating a 19 foot open boat - non-stop around the world, via the southern ocean clipper ship route, back in the early 90ies:

http://www.flicka20.com/Portals/30/ff/ff_04_01.pdf

He logged a 137 mile day at one point, claims he saw 9 knots over ground (i've seen 8) and was faster than 40 foot former race boat cruising in company with his "Selected Risks".

He lay hove-to in a 45 knot gale for 36 hours in the alguhas current off south Africa, saying his Flicka "barely noticed" it. Then he rounded cape Alguhas (good hope) in good weather and headed out into the southern Atlantic.

know what aborted his attempt to set the record for smallest boat to navigate non-stop, unassisted via the southern ocean?

His ENGINE.

well, more exactly, his recalcitrant gasoline fueled genset, which took him several frustrating hours to disassemble, troubleshoot, and start, and he was reluctant to shut it down for re-fueling. He stupidly attempted to refuel it in mid ocean, in a seaway, while it was running, and predictably, it went up in flames.

.... and so did he. Still, he managed to reach St. Helena and medical help in 5 days, under sail.

...and he has the class to aknowledge his "stupidy" at ignoring basic safety and seamanship and for "letting the boat down".

There is no mention of a propulsion engine aboard "Selected Risks" and I dont see an outboard in the article photo either. He certainly didnt have a diesel inboard, though one might argue it could have prevented his mishap.

Since there is so much ignorance and predudice here against this fine boat, here is a page full of links proving how capable she is:

Flicka Brochures

This story is my favorite though:

http://www.flicka20.com/Portals/30/b..._tondelayo.pdf

..... Pounding against the bottom in the surf for 5 or 6 hours surrounded by lighting and raked by microbusts and storm surf, and she comes through without a scratch, rudder in tact, bilge bone dry.

Try that in a fin keeled boat with a spade rudder.... The results will be very different, I assure you.

Bingham deemed a 15lb CQR and a 6 hp outboard adequit for he and his wife's 2 years of full time cruising thier Flicka, "Sabrina" in the Bahamas, they crossed the gulf stream without incident, and apparently never dragged anchor and definately never shipwrecked.

I'm not yet contemplating offshore bluewater passages just yet.

My immediate goal is La Paz, Mexico, and I'll not weigh anchor from here or any safe harbor until the weather window is favorable.

The passage is coastal, and can litterally be daysailed, with the exception of the 150 mile passage from Magdelena Bay to Cabo San Lucas - its all downwind, and I'm bringing crew. The crux of this particular journey is supposed to be the passage out to Cedros Island, so you can bet your sweet ..... I'll be extra cautious there, and anywhere inshore for that matter.

Please worry about my motorcycle commuting, not my sailing. I'm so much safer at sea than on land its not even worth debating:

- sadly a well known local MDR marine services businessman was killed last month on his motorcycle - not his boat, his bike.


But I suspect the "concern" for my safety expressed here is really the result of my opinions provoking a very different sort of worry in certain readers - the anxiety and anger that comes from having too much boat, too many "responsibilities" and not enough time to sail her.

You know deep inside that a smaller, simpler boat would get you out of port and experiencing the wider world - but the rot has set in.

The rot is in your mind, if not your ship.

Try taking both out once in a while, opening them up, and letting in some fresh air.
Ha, ha. Well, you're a good sport, Hogan. And very entertaining. Glad to have you around

Concern for your safety was real and sincere, although it was probably more concern for newbies who might read some of your "technical" points and be misled. We guard very much the quality of this resource and the information contained in it. I think that if you came bursting into a serious motorcycling forum and started saying things like: "I don't worry about collisions with cars at all, unlike the rest of you guys, because I ride with my feet on the saddle, and I'll just somersault over a car if a collision becomes imminent, and the rest of you are dipshits because you don't practice your tumbling", you would get a similar reaction -- of incredulous hostility. Some of the things you said sounded just exactly like that to us.

As to your boat -- not a single person insulted your boat, and you shouldn't misunderstand people's comments. On the contrary, surely everyone who knows the Flicka -- and although I have never sailed on one, I have admired them underway and at the dock -- knows what a work of art they are -- beautiful and superbly made by one of the best builders on the planet. What people were trying to point out was merely that some of your ideas of what you can do in your Flicka do not correspond to reality. An 18 foot waterline is an 18 foot waterline, and a full keel is a full keel. There's no getting around that, no matter how pretty and sturdy the boat is. My own previous boat was a Pearson 365, another very sturdy and very seaworthy (for her size) boat of the same era as yours (much less pretty than the Flicka, but with a less porky hull shape so much faster), and with, if not a full keel, a very long fin keel. Well, let's put it this way -- I, like many others here, know from experience how hard it is to make miles to windward in a boat like that.


One of your theses is that anyone who sails a bigger boat with an engine is a wage slave mortgaged to his eyeballs and without any freedom or any balls. Where do you take such an idea? First of all, it is wrong. Second of all, how do you expect people to react to such declarations? Do you really expect them to say: "Oh, Hogan, you're right - my life is miserable. And if you hadn't come along, I would never have known. Thanks for enlightening me." LOL. Of course people react to such statements with hostility -- I can't believe that you are surprised. Actually, I don't know anyone here who fits your stereotype. I don't know anyone here who bought his boat on credit (maybe someone doesn't admit it). I paid cash for mine. I also paid cash for my apartment and I paid cash for my lake house. I work more or less full time, but I work for myself and haven't had a boss in 20 years, and with no mortgages I can live on income from rental property if I ever don't feel like working. I sail a lot, but at this stage in my life I enjoy my work even more than sailing. Others here have similar stories. Many are living in well-constructed retirement. You make what you can with the means you have -- just like anything in life. If you have a million dollars to spend on a boat, you generally buy a million dollar boat -- because it's nice and it's comfortable and it sails better (sailing performance goes up disproportionately with size). If you only have $40k, then you could do a lot worse than a Flicka, and the main thing is to get out there and don't wait until you can save up for something bigger -- the advice constantly given on this forum to everyone who asks -- go cruising now in whatever boat you can afford and don't wait - the boat is not the main thing. You don't need to rationalize it to yourself by arguing that anything bigger than 20 feet is "too much boat to handle". It's not; that's ridiculous. One of the guys here giving you sh*t in this thread sails a 65 foot Sundeer, has put tens of thousands of miles on it (usually at double-digit speeds), double-handed blissfully with his wife. For him, that's just the right size (for me too -- I lust after his boat -- there must be a commandment against that, though). For you, your boat is just the right size. That's great, nothing wrong with either case. The main thing is to get out there.

This forum is about sailing, and not about psychology, but I can't resist saying that I sense an urgent desire on your part to validate your choices. Well, relax already! Surely everyone here admires anyone who manages to get it together to get out on the ocean and go cruising, something everyone here dreams about, if we're not actually doing it. You don't need to assume that everyone else in the world (and in particular, on this board) is an idiot, who doesn't know anything about the real meaning of life, to discover that.


Concerning motorcycling: this is also outside the scope of this forum, but a significant part of the surface of my own body is covered with scars from a youth misspent on motorcycles (and there are lots of other current or former motorcyclists on this board, by the way). I came to the conclusion in the hospital after the third accident that for all the bliss you can have on a motorcycle, for all the sheer efficiency of a motorcycle as a means of transportation, the risk-reward balance is negative. Really negative. I am not your mother, so I won't say anything more than that.
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