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Old 23-09-2014, 13:49   #1
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Oil Filter Change Interval

I have always changed filters every time I change oil on all my vehicles and equipment, even if the mfg recommendation is (as it sometimes, but not always is) to change the filter with every other oil change.

My Yanmar 4JH3HTE main engine has a recommended oil change interval of 250 hours. There is no alternative time interval in the manual, but regardless of hours, I always change my oil at the start of winter, and before the start of my summer cruise, as a minimum, which I think is just common sense.

For reasons we have discussed on another thread, I usually change my oil at 100 hours, which is quite a bit shorter than the recommended interval. If I run the engine a lot during a short period of time, like on a very long trip, then I will let this go up to 200 hours, but never more than that. This has a whole host of beneficial effects, but one drawback -- the engine runs for a few seconds without oil pressure. I can't operate the starter on this engine with the stop valve pressed (it blows all the breakers), so I have just have to live with this state.

I am wondering whether it makes sense to not change the filter every time I change the oil? This reduces the frequency of dry starts, achieves 90% of the purpose of the early oil change, and simplifies and cheapens the intermediate oil changes. And I am in any case not violating the mfg recommendations about the frequency of filter change.

What do y'all think about this idea?
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Old 23-09-2014, 14:01   #2
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Re: Oil Filter Change Interval

The big thing with oil and why it needs to be changed is it gets dirty. Yes oil does break down with use but it gets dirty much faster then it breaks down.

On a car for example even conventional oil is good for much longer then the recommended interval of 3000 miles but it gets dirty and it is the dirt that "starts" to cause problems in the long run. Believe it or not but the convention a long time ago used to be to change the filter every time and the oil every other time because the oil was still good but the filter needed upkeep to keep the oil clean. What you are doing now sounds like a very good maintenance plan. I would keep with what you are doing.

The few seconds of oil starvation on start up is not the end of the world. If it really concerns you, you can install a pre oiler pump but that could get complicated.
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Old 23-09-2014, 14:05   #3
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Re: Oil Filter Change Interval

I stopped changing my filter every oil change because I change the oil at the start of each year and that is less than 100 hours between. It is almost the end of the year and my oil is still clean looking even with last year's filter.

I think people change their oil for the same reason they believe they need to change their SW impeller each year; just because makes them feel all maintenance like.
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Old 23-09-2014, 14:05   #4
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Re: Oil Filter Change Interval

Filters cost me about $6.00 (usually WIX or Baldwin Filters) so I simply change it with every oil change. I did add a remote oil filter, with larger filter, and thus I now have slightly more oil capacity and a much easier to change oil filter. In fact changing the filter is about the easiest maintenance I do on the boat, and the cheapest. For the price of a glass of wine, I change it...
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Old 23-09-2014, 14:12   #5
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Re: Oil Filter Change Interval

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
Filters cost me about $6.00 (usually WIX or Baldwin Filters) so I simply change it with every oil change. I did add a remote oil filter, with larger filter, and thus I now have slightly more oil capacity and a much easier to change oil filter. In fact changing the filter is about the easiest maintenance I do on the boat, and the cheapest. For the price of a glass of wine, I change it...
Well, my filters cost about $35 (Yanmar original), but even more than that, I'm concerned with the high frequency of dry starts compared to what would occur with the factory interval.

Yet another concern is that the filter change cannot be accomplished without some oil getting into the bilge, which is a mess.

I would certainly be interested to hear about your remote oil filter setup, however. That sounds cool. Might be worth doing if it reduced the cost and increased the quality of the filtration, and made oil changes less messy.
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Old 23-09-2014, 14:28   #6
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Re: Oil Filter Change Interval

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Well, my filters cost about $35 (Yanmar original), but even more than that, I'm concerned with the high frequency of dry starts compared to what would occur with the factory interval.

Yet another concern is that the filter change cannot be accomplished without some oil getting into the bilge, which is a mess.

I would certainly be interested to hear about your remote oil filter setup, however. That sounds cool. Might be worth doing if it reduced the cost and increased the quality of the filtration, and made oil changes less messy.
Step #1 Know the thread & pitch of your factory filter

Step #2 Know the gasket OD & ID of your factory filters o-ring

Step #3 Go on-line and find a remote oil filter take off adapter that meets your requirements. There are many manufactures of them and for Yanmar's many that fit Honda and Toyota's also fit Yanmar.. You can get them in Billet or Cast...
Image courtesy JEGS


Step #4 Get some oil rated hose, usually ATF hose from a transmission shop works best but hydraulic hose can work too. Mine is made by Gates.

Step #5 Choose a remote filter bracket and remote filter. Be sure it meets or exceeds your factory filters capabilities (this is not difficult with the small Japanese filters). I am using a "Ford" filter that is extremely common and crosses to just about every filter brand out there.



My remote bracket uses any of these...
Fram PH8A
FRAM Tough Guard TG8A
WIX 51515
NAPA GOLD (WIX) 1515
Baldwin B2
Ford FL-1A
Mitsubishi MO5281090

etc. etc. etc.. The google time and research will take you longer than the install....

Oh and I pre-fill my filter before screwing it on....

Done....
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Old 23-09-2014, 14:34   #7
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Re: Oil Filter Change Interval

I remember a discussion on how not to get oil in the bilge, when changing the filter.

You could knock a hole in it to allow it to drain (into a pan)

You can put a large ziplock bag around it, to help catch the oil.

Or you can put lots of absorbent cloth under it (my strategy)

One thing I do is drain any salt water from the under-engine area, which has leaked from the cutless gland, before I start. It's much easier to clean up the oil when it's not floating on top of water.
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Old 24-09-2014, 12:16   #8
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Re: Oil Filter Change Interval

Dock,
It was common practice for commercial trucking companies to change the oil in their semi's every second time but an oil filter at regular intervals. This was largely due to the size of the crankcases(cost) but also to the fact that as long as the viscosity of the oil has not changed (which it doesn't unless it has been compromised by fuel/water) during use it could be reused with a new filter that removes particulate matter such as metal, dirt and grit which will destroy bearing surfaces, rings, cylinder walls, etc. and lead to engine failure/lack of performance. If you want to save money on oil changes, leave the oil and change the filter. However, I don't advise this practice since one saves little money if your maintenance schedule leads to engine problems/wear and its a little like taking a shower and putting on your old underwear. What's the point? Good luck and good sailing.
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Old 24-09-2014, 12:27   #9
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Re: Oil Filter Change Interval

i do just the opposite i guess ,, my filters are easy to get to and cheap ilike 4 bucks each ,, i change my oil every 200 hours but change my filters every hundred hours and put a little oil additive to my oil at that time ,, i had a filter rust out on me the bottom of a filter .. was running for eight straight hours to the perlas islands with no wind to speak of .. i had turned my bilge pumps off to see how often the bilges were filing while underway .. i turned them on every hour ,, scared the hell out of me when oil came from my bilges ,, i went below and oil was spraying all over the place .. i shut down and discovered a pin hole in the bottom of the filter i changed it and rust was on the bottom of the filter bad ,, the previous owner told me only 60 hours on the motor since oil and filter change ??
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Old 24-09-2014, 12:27   #10
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Re: Oil Filter Change Interval

One nice thing about a remote oil filter is you can mount it vertically. This not only keeps mess to a min. when removing, but also allows you to pre-fill the filter, pretty much eliminating the dry start when you change oil and filter.

I think you need the remote mount filter, but always change filters.
Go to this site and look up filters, they are not all the same. A few years ago, OK a lot of years ago I read a report by Consumer Reports on oil filters, I was shocked at how much difference there is.
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Old 24-09-2014, 12:30   #11
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Re: Oil Filter Change Interval

I used to be convinced that that there was a lot of wear on an engine during start up, so much so that I would lock my vehicle, but leave it running if I was going in to pay for gas etc.
But about four years ago I bought a Prius to save fuel (money). Darn engine is always shutting off, and sometimes for minutes at a time, 150,000 miles later it's oil still doesn't change color much at 5,000 miles indicating almost zero blow by, so much for the excessive wear at start up theory?
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Old 24-09-2014, 12:54   #12
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Re: Oil Filter Change Interval

64,
What you're experiencing on your car is correct and is the same for a marine diesel. The only time you will have a dry start on an engine(diesel or gas) is if it has not been started for a very long time, especially in hot weather where the oil has drained from the top of the engine into the crankcase. This is a highly unusual situation but it did happen to me once when I stored a vehicle outside in Florida for 7 months and when I returned and tried to start it ,there was no oil in the cylinders. I poured oil into the engine, cranked, turned off and repeated this multiple times until the engine was lubricated. The oil was not synthetic but natural oil. I drove the vehicle for another year with no problems.
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Old 24-09-2014, 13:19   #13
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Re: Oil Filter Change Interval

Back thirty or so years ago when Amsoil and bypass filters were sort of the rage, engine pre-lubers were being sold also. The idea was to have an accumulator filled with a couple quarts of oil and just before starting the engine, a solenoid would open a valve to this accumulator and the couple of quarts of oil would then be released under pressure and pre lube the engine. Theory being that you would then have an engine that would suffer no initial wear on start up and last almost forever. The accumulator would be recharged from engine oil pressure through a restricted orifice after engine start.
Not real sure why, but apparently it didn't increase the life expectancy of an engine by that much
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Old 24-09-2014, 14:02   #14
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Re: Oil Filter Change Interval

When I re-powered to a Yanmar 4JH4AE I added a remote oil filter to the installation. This was one spec'd by either Yanmar or Mac Boring (distributor). This still uses the pricey Yanmar filters, but they are a nit compared to other maintenance costs. The vertical mount eliminates most, but not all, of the oil spill during removal. I put an oil absorbent rag under the filter and a ziploc over the filter when removing it. I can also fill the new filter with oil before screwing it onto the bracket, which minimizes the amount of oil I have to add after briefly running the engine.

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Old 24-09-2014, 15:14   #15
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Re: Oil Filter Change Interval

Because I read forums I now change theoil in my Yanmar every hour. On the hour and sometimes twice an hour if its hot. The sun, I mean, if the sun is hot. I never let the engine get hot.


Why dont you do what the BOOK says? Do you think the Yanmar guy who wrote it was a complete imbicile as to chuck in a few jokes so you would wreck your engine?

Quote:

Yanmar 4JH Series

Fuel Filter Every 300 hours

Chainge Oil every 150 hours
Change Oil Filter every 300 hours



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