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Old 26-09-2014, 06:32   #46
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Re: Oil Filter Change Interval

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Originally Posted by ontherocks83 View Post
........
My point in all of this is if an airplane engine which is very heavily regulated and monitored has that kind of allowance on start up, your engine after an oil change will be just fine.
Not sure if I concur with your reasoning, the airplane engine must be pulled down and overhauled at certain time intervals, hopefully when before any serious damage (from any source) has occurred so it doesn't matter if some wear occurs from occasional loss of oil pressure. The boat diesel can just keep on wearing away and if it does fail, one sails on or anchors

For the record, I don't think the wear of the "dry start" is anything too serious but eliminating it seems to be best practice IMO.
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Old 26-09-2014, 06:52   #47
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Re: Oil Filter Change Interval

Yes you are correct it must be torn down at certain intervals. However if certain things happen to it. i.e. prop strike, lack of oil change at correct interval, or letting it run for more the 10 seconds with out oil pressure then it must be torn down immediately. The manufacturer has figured out that certain conditions can happen with out any detrimental effects to the engine.

I know I am splitting hairs but even if you had a pre-oiler to use before ever start up especially after an oil change I would bet my bottom dollar there would be no significant increase in engine life over one that doesn't use a pre oiler.
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Old 26-09-2014, 07:11   #48
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Re: Oil Filter Change Interval

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Not sure if I concur with your reasoning, the airplane engine must be pulled down and overhauled at certain time intervals, hopefully when before any serious damage (from any source) has occurred so it doesn't matter if some wear occurs from occasional loss of oil pressure. The boat diesel can just keep on wearing away and if it does fail, one sails on or anchors
Wotname,

I do not know what the rules are in your neck of the woods, but here in the U.S. private, not-for-hire fixed wing (I am not a helicopter guy) aircraft engines are not required to be overhauled at the manufacturers recommended time between overhaul.

Everyone,

Consider that virtually all early engines did not have any pressureized oil. Bearings had a small resivour of oil nearby that would be filled periodically by an "oiler".

Steve
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Old 26-09-2014, 07:21   #49
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Re: Oil Filter Change Interval

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Originally Posted by ontherocks83 View Post
I know I am splitting hairs but even if you had a pre-oiler to use before ever start up especially after an oil change I would bet my bottom dollar there would be no significant increase in engine life over one that doesn't use a pre oiler.
Your correct Pre-oilers used to be the fashion thirty or so years ago, but they make little if any difference, surprisingly, I thought sure they would almost make an engines "bottom end" wear almost forever. I was wrong.
Irrelevant to the conversation, but aircraft operated in part 91 operations (private use) engines, props etc can be operated on an "on condition" basis, you don't have to follow TBO etc., but the moment you use that aircraft commercially (make money with it) flight instruction etc., it has to have 100 hour inspections and everything has to follow TBO (time between overhaul) On edit (US rules)

So you were both correct

Yes most engines in days gone by were merely splash lubricated, and this greatly limited power output, only aircraft engines were pressure lubricated, this is why many tanks and PT boats etc. in WWII used aircraft engines, it was pressure lubrication that allowed for higher horsepower in a smaller, lighter engine.

All of this is sort of a mute point really, almost always what causes an engine to go in for overhaul, is piston / bore / ring wear, it loses compression is hard to start and burns oil, not because the bottom end is worn out and the engine loses oil pressure or a spun bearing etc. And the piston and bore are splash lubricated, not pressure
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Old 26-09-2014, 07:29   #50
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Re: Oil Filter Change Interval

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Originally Posted by ontherocks83 View Post

I know I am splitting hairs but even if you had a pre-oiler to use before ever start up especially after an oil change I would bet my bottom dollar there would be no significant increase in engine life over one that doesn't use a pre oiler.
I know of piles of commercial marine diesels and land based diesels, the same as the ones in our sail boats, that have well in excess of 10K hours. I don't know a single one of them with a pre-oiler.. I have one trawler customer that has a pre-luber but it has been disconnected for years because it failed.

How long will it take the average sailor to accumulate 10K+ hours....? We have engine driven refrigeration and even with that 10K hours likely won't happen in my lifetime..... My old commercial lobster boat had 12.5K on the Cummins when I sold her. I bought her with 8K hours.. A few years later I saw the guy and the engine was still going strong and likely had 16K or so. I only used Rotella in it as most lobstermen I knew did...

Heck a guy here in Portland Maine drove a run of the mill Honda Accord 1,000,000 miles on the original engine and transmission with no pre-oiler, 7 figures!!!....

We have four vehicles at our house (two Toyota and two Honda) that are 144K- Prius, 172K - Pilot, 176K- T100 and 263K- 1983 Civic. All use regular oil and none have caused a dimes worth of engine related failures nor do they burn or use oil, none use synthetic. The little Civic sees the most cold starts (its an antique only driven summers) and still that little un-rebuilt 31 year old, quarter million mile, little four banger plugs on using nothing but regular old dino oil...

Oils are great these days, just keep up with it and the engine will likely out last most sailors........
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Old 26-09-2014, 08:25   #51
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Re: Oil Filter Change Interval

Here's a remote filter kit for a Yanmar 4JH that is reasonably priced Derale Oil Filter Relocation Kit - 20 mm x 1.5 mm Engine Filter Threads Derale Accessories and Parts D15718
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Old 26-09-2014, 08:33   #52
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Re: Oil Filter Change Interval

Get told so many times that these engines are tractor engines...

Well, think of so many farmers who have a tractor, or some agricultural unit thats used once per year for a week 24 hours per day, and then left in the shed for 360 days.
Harvesters, pickers, pluckers, balers, shearers, augers... Theres a country side full of diesel engines sitting there doing bugger all most of the time. And how long do they last? Years? Decades? Generations?

And you think yours need to be coddled like a new born?
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Old 26-09-2014, 09:18   #53
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Re: Oil Filter Change Interval

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Originally Posted by Paul L View Post
$49.95 vs. $847.00 for the one from Westerbeke for my engine! There are of course some valid reasons for higher-priced oem parts, and it can make sense to pay the higher price in certain applications and I often do. But this doesn't pass the "laugh test" imho.

Based on your link, I went to the Derale website and they offer a number of reasonably priced filter relocation kits, including a "universal" one that fits the filters MaineSail referred to above. Also (finally) found a long list of cross-references for the oem filter on my 82B, although some of the dimensions seem a bit inconsistent. Anyway, thanks for the lead.
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Old 26-09-2014, 09:20   #54
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Re: Oil Filter Change Interval

A lot of why modern engines last so long is manufacturing tolerances now are closer than anything but hand built blue printed engines of days gone by, plus at least the automotive engines a lot has to do with the un-leaded fuel, it burns a whole lot cleaner, spark plugs will last more than 100,000 miles now for example.

Bottom line is while we all like to think of the good old days, at least as far as engines are concerned, they have never been better than they are now, we have never had the fuel consumption, horsepower and lower emissions than we do now.

I hope ULSD will do for Diesels what unleaded did for spark ignition engines.
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Old 26-09-2014, 09:52   #55
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Re: Oil Filter Change Interval

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exile View Post
$49.95 vs. $847.00 for the one from Westerbeke for my engine! There are of course some valid reasons for higher-priced oem parts, and it can make sense to pay the higher price in certain applications and I often do. But this doesn't pass the "laugh test" imho.

Based on your link, I went to the Derale website and they offer a number of reasonably priced filter relocation kits, including a "universal" one that fits the filters MaineSail referred to above. Also (finally) found a long list of cross-references for the oem filter on my 82B, although some of the dimensions seem a bit inconsistent. Anyway, thanks for the lead.
I chose my engine adapter and remote adapter not as a kit but separate., That allowed me to choose which remote filter I used. Finding the thread and pitch adapter is easy but finding the right size o-ring is the tough part.

The most important measurement in the whole deal is the engine adapter o-ring to engine.

This dimension:


Needs to land on this dimension (use calipers for better accuracy or measure the factory filter o-ring center to center):


The engine adapter will look something like this before it is plumbed to the remote bracket:
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Old 26-09-2014, 10:08   #56
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Re: Oil Filter Change Interval

[QUOTE=Maine Sail;1638435]I chose my engine adapter and remote adapter not as a kit but separate., That allowed me to choose which remote filter I used. Finding the thread and pitch adapter is easy but finding the right size o-ring is the tough part.

The most important measurement in the whole deal is the engine adapter o-ring to engine.

......................................
[Quote]

Is there a reason not to simply identify the o-ring measurement for the adapter to the engine as the same measurement as the o-ring that is supplied with the oil filter that is recommended for the engine?
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Old 26-09-2014, 11:28   #57
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Re: Oil Filter Change Interval

Regarding horizontal oil filters....

You can pre fill the filter before installing. You just can't fill the filter completely full. I have done this on several engines over the years. The filter will "absorb" quite a bit of oil, it always amazes me how quickly the oil disappears into the media, and how much oil I can add to the filter before the filter is full. I fill and then swirl the oil in the filter a few times to saturate the media as best I can.

Flip side is that I doubt there is any meaningful wear on the engine if the engine was started with a dry filter. I just do it because it is easy to do and can't hurt.

On a boat engine, I would certainly think about changing the oil filter mount to a vertical installation. I did not do this on a 4x4 truck because I was worried about a stick pulling out the oil line. Not something a boat has to worry about.

Later,
Dan
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Old 26-09-2014, 15:07   #58
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Re: Oil Filter Change Interval

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Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Get told so many times that these engines are tractor engines...

Well, think of so many farmers who have a tractor, or some agricultural unit thats used once per year for a week 24 hours per day, and then left in the shed for 360 days.
Harvesters, pickers, pluckers, balers, shearers, augers... Theres a country side full of diesel engines sitting there doing bugger all most of the time. And how long do they last? Years? Decades? Generations?

And you think yours need to be coddled like a new born?



At last a chance to use those new emoticons
Mark, there are two types of farmers, those who do coddle their engines even more so than the first born son and those who treat them like a rabid dog. The first have machinery that last generations and run sweetly whenever you ask it to. The second have machinery that last years, maybe decades but are hard to start, use fuel like there is no tomorrow and burn up what little oil is left in the sump before getting to the first corner of the paddock.

In order to keep the post somewhat related to the OP, I'm wondering whether Dockhead is going to keep changing filters at his current intervals (every oil change) or chance to increased intervals???????
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