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Old 23-02-2013, 00:06   #1
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OIL

Hi all,

I have a couple of vintage 1968 diesels , as a matter of fact they are PERKINS 6.354's. 8 years ago I did a major on both, new cylinders(ie: liners, including being line bored), pistons, cranks, cams, lifters, new heads ..well valves, seats, springs, and guides.

Now I find myself not being able to find the proper lube oil.

I manage about 150 hrs a year on these marine engines, With what I invested in them they should do 40K hrs, and that would be a couple of lifetimes for my physical self.

But now due to our governments(well educated public service employees), and the save the worlder's....now it seems that I can't buy off the shelf LUBE OIL that will allow me to see the investment, so most likely these diesel will never see the 40K hr potential, nor my remaining life accuracies.

So now I have to officially become an OIL BLENDER, to achieve my goals.

So I have settled on Shell Rotella T 15w40 which is made from a type II base oil, it use to have a good TBN, but now that it clogs cat, and diesel particulate filters no more.

So I found Rislone ZDDP

So here is my formula each engine holds 13 quarts. including filter. it's a twin engine.

7 quarts Shell Rotella T 15w40
2.5 quarts Shell Rotella T-1 30
1.5 quarts. Rislone ZDDP concentrate
1 quart Marvel Mystery Oil.

Lloyd
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Old 24-02-2013, 13:32   #2
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Re: OIL

Hi Lloyd,

I know that Blackstone labs does a lot of analysis on old oils and can suggest which new oil more closely matches an old formula oil.

Might be worth sending them a question. And with that thought in mind you could sent them you new oil formula for analysis and they could tell yo how well it matches the oil you are trying to recreate.

No interest in the company, just a satisified customer.

Blackstone Labs
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Old 24-02-2013, 13:54   #3
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Re: OIL

Did you check the specs on Brad Penn or Joe Gibbs oil? Those are what we started using on air cooled Porsches when they got rid of the Zinc & phosphorus.
They're about as expensive as synth but the difference in price between synth & dino oils is closing.
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Old 24-02-2013, 14:30   #4
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Re: OIL

Have you read this article by Vyv Cox from YBW?

Oil for yacht engines

Pete
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Old 24-02-2013, 21:50   #5
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Re: OIL

Here's some interesting reading, as well. >>> Stop Changing Your Oil! - Edmunds.com
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Old 24-02-2013, 22:52   #6
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Re: OIL

Im so lucky, I just bought a 50Gal drum of the old Chevron Delo 40 dark !! Should last me the rest of my life !! And it will make my 471 last a lot longer to !!
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Old 24-02-2013, 23:24   #7
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Re: OIL

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Originally Posted by bobconnie View Post
Im so lucky, I just bought a 50Gal drum of the old Chevron Delo 40 dark !! Should last me the rest of my life !! And it will make my 471 last a lot longer to !!
I'm guessing you mean Delo 100 40W.

Well they still sell the delo 100-40W Jimmy Oil.

But the delo 100-30W, and the delo 100-20W are out of production.

I can't find the specs on the D-100-40w, but I suspect that it may still be low ash, but also low TBN.

Now as of this month 2013 we have to find a solution to ULSD.

If we still want to run our vintage diesels.

SAVE THE WORLD, save a cheerleader.

Lloyd
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Old 26-02-2013, 18:03   #8
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Re: OIL

Now as of this month 2013 we have to find a solution to ULSD.

I use 2 cycle outboard oil at 1 oz to the gallen or my cummings. Mike
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Old 26-02-2013, 18:34   #9
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Re: OIL

I recall a nice chart showing what effect additives had on ULSD but have misplaced it. This link has the same data as well....

Lubricity Additive Study Results - Diesel Place : Chevrolet and GMC Diesel Truck Forums

Regards

Note that 2 stroke oil comes in 7th but still improves ULSD for use in older engines
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Old 26-02-2013, 18:43   #10
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Im confused, Rotella T 15w40 has a Tbn of over 10, how is that not good? I could see that it might be too high for an old engine heats also whats your source for it supposedly clogging particulate filters / really really confuzed
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Old 27-02-2013, 10:50   #11
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Re: OIL

Quote:
Originally Posted by evm1024 View Post
I recall a nice chart showing what effect additives had on ULSD but have misplaced it. This link has the same data as well....

Lubricity Additive Study Results - Diesel Place : Chevrolet and GMC Diesel Truck Forums

Regards

Note that 2 stroke oil comes in 7th but still improves ULSD for use in older engines

I believe FlyingCloud is talking about LUBE OIL not fuel oil in his beginning statement.

Some of the old old motors had different metal properties which require oils to compensate for the new tech formulas.
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Old 27-02-2013, 11:04   #12
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Re: OIL

Quote:
Originally Posted by delmarrey View Post
I believe FlyingCloud is talking about LUBE OIL not fuel oil in his beginning statement.

Some of the old old motors had different metal properties which require oils to compensate for the new tech formulas.
Yes he was. Sorry for adding to the thread drift in replying to Flying Cloud's post on low sulfur diesel.

--regards
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Old 09-03-2013, 21:16   #13
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Re: OIL

Hi All,

Well I finally changed the oil today using the recipe that I originally posted. I spoke with the a gent at the Shell Bulk plant who started there when he was 12, his father owned the place.

I came prepared with the tech sheet, and MSDS from Rislone ZDDP additive. Along with the Shell spec sheets, and MSDS from both the Rotella T1 30 single weight, and the the 15W-40 Shell Rotella T. Turns out he's an oil guy, and before I completed, he interrupted and said, first you have no problems mixing the 2 shell oils as the are from the same base stock, with almost identical additive packages. Both are API certified CF or better, both are low sulfated ash.

He said what you need to be concerned with is the oil shearing of the multi-grade oils. I also brought with me my original Perkins manuals which listed the oil spec, the original manufacture's spec. He pulled out a 3 ring binder from years gone by and we compared the original spec oil API rating, for shear, Sulfated Ash, Zinc, and Phosphorus.

We concluded with that with my recipe, that I would have a better oil then original spec meeting all of the requirements, and then some because. He felt that the amount of Rislone being added would raise the ZDDP to levels of the original spec of the Perkins required API. Rotella T is made from a type II base oil, and the original spec is from a type I base oil, which increases its shear value, and luberosity.



So now comes time for the oil change. First the port engine, but it's also time to adjust the valves, as I'm at 400 hrs since the last time. My Perkins manual says to adjust em hot at .010, and the subsequent service bulletin says adjust em cold .012. So I have concluded that I will adjust em cold and check em hot with a .010 go/no-go .011 feeler gauge.

The last time the valves were adjusted, I hired a well known local Perkins mechanic, as I just didn't have time to do em. So cold after 400 hrs I found a couple of intakes that were a little tight go/no-go .011/.012, and a couple exhaust that were loose go/no-go .013-.014. I checked and adjusted so all were in spec. Start the engine run it in gear at the dock, until they are up to temp. Then check the valves hot all are go.010, no-go .011. So I change the oil and filter.

Next the Starboard engine, pop the valve cover, and run #1 cylinder up to compression stoke and with a wholly sh..t .012 is really sloppy. I don't hit a no-go until 16 for both exhaust, and intake. I make the the adjustment as required, then move to the next cylinder, it again is a no-go at .016, so I work my way though the remaining 4 cylinders and they are all no-go at .016.

Now I Know my Perkins has flat tappets, but being a reasonable man I know that 12 tappets are not going to wear that exact same. Both engines were rebuilt at the same time, and both have run the same amount of hours, with the same oil change regimes. The only conclusion is the hired mechanic picked the wrong feeler gauge when he got to this engine. I have been ruining now for about 3 years since the last valve adjustment, and I manage about 125 hrs a year.

So I start it up, and at Idle I'm completely surprised she is running as smooth as I can't believe. It's a Night and Day difference, I'm shocked that I didn't notice in the past 3 years what a difference proper valve adjustment made. Well I did sort of notice that the Pyros showed an elevated EGT on that engine, but at idle was with in 25F, it wasn't until I got above 2200rpm or I was running against a tide that this engine would show about a rise of 100F difference on the Pyro, but at normal cruise it was with-in 25F


So now I run her at the dock in gear, bring her up to temp, shut her down and check the valves all are go .010, no-go .011.

So I change the oil with my new recipe. Start her up, after oil is up I bring her up to 1,000 rpm. I go back to the engine room, just as I get there BANG, POP and all kind of racket, to the what to me sounds like the engine coming completely apart. I ran back to the Helm, hit the kill switch.

Now back to the engine room which is in the cockpit with a deck hatch, my heart in my mouth, just then I hear a Harley with straight pipes revving through the parking lot, and a chopper landing at Ch13TV, which is just a block away.

That's when I realized I didn't blow my engine, yep sure as ****, no problems in the ER, so I restart her and shes purring like a kitten.

In the end it was a beautiful spring day in Seattle to do annual maintenance.

Lloyd
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Old 09-03-2013, 21:18   #14
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Re: OIL

Quote:
Originally Posted by evm1024 View Post
Yes he was. Sorry for adding to the thread drift in replying to Flying Cloud's post on low sulfur diesel.

--regards
No worries about thread drift here, as fuel is next up.

As things get more modern, we with old are getting left behind.

Besides I'm the OP, and I'm the one that brought up the topic of Fuel...

so how could it be thread drift?

Lloyd
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Old 09-03-2013, 21:32   #15
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Re: OIL

Keep in mind that the depth that the valve is in the seat affects the valve gap as well. They seem to change more at that end than at the rocker end. This doesn't explain what you found, but you seem interested in how things work.
I don't much like Harleys.
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