Non-toxic antifreeze..?

[Chenega]

In Connecticut, yards say you can not run and winterized engines and systems with nontoxic antifreeze on land. All systems must be done in the water. Antifreeze (nontoxic) can not be spilled on land. Does this make sense? In the water not on land?

[S/V Illusion]

Actually, you can't discharge it regardless of whether it is in the water or on land. Ethylene glycol is a designated hazardous substance as well as a characteristic hazardous waste when released. Those are regulatory terms, not semantics.

Such prohibitions apply regardless of the state as they are Federal regulatory requirements which all states must meet or exceed.

As a practical matter, people discharge it both on land and in the water but that doesn't obviate the regulatory requirements which are loosely if enforced at all.

Propylene glycol antifreeze is no different.

[sabray]

Propylene glycol is considered to be safer. Think that is what the poster had in mind.
Makes no sense that its okay to dump in the water and not in land?

[skipmac]

Actually propylene glycol is quite different from ethylene glycol. Among other things PG is used in food, ice cream, drinks, medications oral and injectable and millions of gallons are dumped on the ground all over the world every winter when it's used as aircraft deicing fluid, including Bradley airport in Hartford CT.

So, not sure why it would be banned in marinas. When you refer to non-toxic antifreeze is this in fact propylene glycol.

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by sabray

Propylene glycol is considered to be safer. Think that is what the poster had in mind.
Makes no sense that its okay to dump in the water and not in land?

P glycol is not pure and as such, contains some components which are toxic. Next time you go shopping for it, check the labels, most of which now contain a warning about flammability because the formulation now contains other alcohols which are both toxic and flammable. This is also the formulation used to de-ice airplanes and all airports are required to contain all runoff because of this.

[GaryMayo]

I just purchased ten jugs of the non flammable kind at Walmart. They had the cheaper stuff for 3 a gallon. The better stuff was 5 a gallon. Had it not been for threads here on this web site, I would not have realized a difference. In the past I just grabbed the pink stuff every fall.

[skipmac]

Certainly many different PG based formulations for different applications. However the types used to winterize potable water systems should not contain anything toxic or hazardous. Depending on the manufacturer I think a common additive is dipotassium phosphate which is also non-haz. Cannot see why this formulation would not be OK for use in the boatyard.

Aircraft deicing PG does contain corrosion inhibitors, wetting agents and such that would not be good to dump into the environment but unfortunately quite a lot of it makes it past the containment and collection pads at the airports.

Another glycol that is used a lot is diethylene glycol for deicing coal during transport in rail cars. Thousands of tons of this have been used for this over the years, all of which is poured directly onto the open hopper cars with significant spillage into the environment. I think in recent years much if not all of the DEG has been replaced in this application by a much safer crude glycerin that is generated as a byproduct in the production bio-diesel.

Sorry for the thread drift but thought this might be interesting.

So what does the boat yard or CT regs allow for use in winterizing your boat?

[Argyle38]

Never heard of this. I suggest you find another boatyard if you can. Sounds like the yard might be trying to hard-sell their winterizing services.

[Cheechako]

and yet propylene glycol is used to winterize fresh water systems......right?

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

and yet propylene glycol is used to winterize fresh water systems......right?

yes but would you drink it?

[Cheechako]

I avoid all that stuff personally! I had one boat bought in the NE that had been winterized with it.... took forever before I could get myself to drink water out of the tanks.... really never did. OTOH.. if you start reading food labels.... it's in a helluva lot of things! It's also in medical compounds, makes a good laxative evidently. at any rate, if it's in your food, I dont see why it cant go on the ground in small quantities.
I was involved in a "arms length" way in a Ehylene Glycol spill which went into a local wetland/swamp. In the end the EPA said the best thing was to leave it as it was. They mentioned that EG is basically a form of, or breaks down into being "complex sugars"... whatever that is!

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

and yet propylene glycol is used to winterize fresh water systems......right?

The PG is not the problem, it's the additives. Some grades have some fairly nasty stuff added for corrosion inhibitors and such. I'm guessing the state or the yards, whoever banned the use, just banned all types instead of differentiating between the potable water grades and the others.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I avoid all that stuff personally! I had one boat bought in the NE that had been winterized with it.... took forever before I could get myself to drink water out of the tanks.... really never did. OTOH.. if you start reading food labels.... it's in a helluva lot of things!

My personal rule of thumb, if the ingredients list on a food label is paragraph
length or contains ingredients with a name 4-5 syllables long I probably don't want to eat it.

[Cheechako]

Yeah, the older I get , the more I'm headed that way too. Although I seem to have lesss and less an appetite for meat, I tried to buy a rolled pork roast a couple of weeks ago. (the kind with the strings around it) Couldnt find it anywhere. All the places just try to give you the pork loin in the plastic package that's injected with salt water and along list of other things... probably including proylene glycol.... cant remember... This is what happens when huge companies control the food supply.....