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Old 14-11-2014, 16:24   #46
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Re: Next Step to Get Diesel Started

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Originally Posted by chris95040 View Post
Hmmmm. Not sure about this.

If wired in series, and it failed in such a way where it became a short circuit (somehow achieving significantly LESS resistance across its terminals then the already very-low-resistance, functional glow plugs) then I suppose you'd see this. But that seems (almost impossibly?) unlikely based on how heating elements work. The way they fail is typically to burn out and become an OPEN circuit. In which case, if wired in series, when one light goes out they all go out. No damage to the good ones, the circuit is open and no juice is flowing.

Also, if wired in parallel, an open circuit failure mode should still largely leave the other plugs unaffected (ignoring voltage-drop effects from bad wiring or bad batteries, but even in that case the plugs would never see _higher_ than the intended voltage.)


-Chris
Agreed, Chris. All the engines with which I am familiar have them wired in parallel. Series makes no sense whatsoever.

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Old 14-11-2014, 18:02   #47
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Next Step to Get Diesel Started

They are in parallel, or at least whatever is one buss bar with multiple taps?
I got that from old VW Diesel that I believe had a glow plug timer based on temp would equal glow time, you waited until the light went out. Anyway read that when one plug went, the others went more quickly as same power was distributed to fewer plugs.
Maybe when some plugs were missing, light was on longer?
Anyway it explained to me how suddenly I had four bad plugs and engine was hard to start, but maybe they went slowly, but engine would start until last one died?

Sorry, I was wrong, it happens?
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Old 14-11-2014, 20:22   #48
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Re: Next Step to Get Diesel Started

if they ground to the block (which I think they all do), they are parallel
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Old 24-11-2014, 08:15   #49
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Re: Next Step to Get Diesel Started

Well the saga continues. The lift pump was replaced and the little diesel cranks right up and runs like a champ. My wife and I pulled out the slip and right when we made it to the channel I just happened to notice it was running hot (no alarms that I know of on this boat). Turned back in, tied to nearest pier and killed the engine. After it cooled for a bit I started it back up to head back to slip. To get to our pier we had to motor dead into a pretty brisk breeze forcing me to slightly increase RPM resulting in a very hot engine (at least 245 F as that is the extent of my gauge versus a 150-190 operating temp). This leaves me with two follow-up questions: How do I determine if my genius self has done significant and/or permanent damage to the engine? I started it a couple of times while troubleshooting the raw water system and is not showing any apparent issues.

Which leads me to my second question: I opened the water pump">raw water pump and as suspected found remnants of a once gloriously intact impeller. (I got kind of misty eyed at the experience of my first impeller change, but I digress). It seems one or more pieces of the impeller made its way to the heat exchanger as the exhaust is blowing dry and engine still tries to get hot. If I open the HX clean it out and still do not get raw water flow, what troubleshooting step(s) would you take next? (Please not that I have already confirmed a good flow from raw water seacock by removing intake hose from strainer and opening valve) I'm really hoping a clogged HX is the culprit but want to be prepared to move to the next step if that is not the case.

As always, thank you everybody for your wealth of information and the willingness to share it.
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Old 24-11-2014, 09:38   #50
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Re: Next Step to Get Diesel Started

Does the volume of water coming out the exhaust seem the same as always? If so, probably not a clogged HX. Could be a stuck thermostat. Try testing thermostat in pan of water with a meat thermometer. If the thermostat opens at 180F then it's ok.

You should be able to find the impeller bits by disassembling the HX.
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Old 24-11-2014, 10:07   #51
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Re: Next Step to Get Diesel Started

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Does the volume of water coming out the exhaust seem the same as always? If so, probably not a clogged HX. Could be a stuck thermostat. Try testing thermostat in pan of water with a meat thermometer. If the thermostat opens at 180F then it's ok.

You should be able to find the impeller bits by disassembling the HX.
There is no water discharging which makes me think the HX is clogged. I'm guessing if the HX is free and clear the next logical culprit might be the raw water pump itself? I'm doubting this since I did re-open the impeller housing to double check for debris and it seemed evident that new impeller was being rotated.

I was fully expecting frequent maintenance and repair on a boat this old, despite being in relatively good condition. I just wish I could enjoy it a little in between fixes!!!!!!!
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Old 24-11-2014, 10:15   #52
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Re: Next Step to Get Diesel Started

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Originally Posted by NOLA_sailing View Post
There is no water discharging which makes me think the HX is clogged. I'm guessing if the HX is free and clear the next logical culprit might be the raw water pump itself? I'm doubting this since I did re-open the impeller housing to double check for debris and it seemed evident that new impeller was being rotated.

I was fully expecting frequent maintenance and repair on a boat this old, despite being in relatively good condition. I just wish I could enjoy it a little in between fixes!!!!!!!
If you have no discharge and you feel certain the impeller is turning (and getting water from the inlet) then it's time to disassemble your HX. PITA, but once you've done it - you'll know how to do it next time something screws up.
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Old 24-11-2014, 10:43   #53
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Re: Next Step to Get Diesel Started

Check each choke point in the cooling system. Do the simplest first which was the hose to the pump. Since you know there are pieces of an impeller in there somewhere you'll need to try and find them.

Good luck. At least you got it started.
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Old 24-11-2014, 10:59   #54
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Re: Next Step to Get Diesel Started

A couple things:
I cant remember how much you had the engine apart?
* on some engines you have to fill the block with coolant below the thermostat. Otherwise as the engine heats up, the thermostat doesn't see any heat transfer from the air below it and wont cool.
*Check any heat exchangers for impellor parts (do you have a little exchanger for the transmission?)
I guess the question is did poor water flow destroy the impellor or did the impellor fail?
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Old 24-11-2014, 11:35   #55
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Re: Next Step to Get Diesel Started

You were cranking with the water intake through hull shut off. Did you remember to turn it back on.

Only time will tell if you have done damage or not. Diesels can be pretty forgiving.
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Old 24-11-2014, 11:39   #56
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Re: Next Step to Get Diesel Started

I have had this same problem once. It was a bit tricky but I finally got it figured out. I was told to backflush the heat exchanger with a hose. By doing so I created a puzzle of an impeller and kept on back flushing until it was complete. IT worked but took some time. From there I installed a new impeller and thought I was ok. The actual problem turned out to be a small leak in the raw water strainer, which was mounted above the water line, that was allowing air in the system. This would cause the water to loose prime. From there the pump couldn't prime the raw water and then would burn itself up running dry. I had to cut new gaskets for the strainer as replacement parts were not available in the small town I got stuck in. I also lowered the strainer closer tot he waterline. Not sure if this helps but worth looking into.
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Old 24-11-2014, 11:55   #57
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Re: Next Step to Get Diesel Started

No matter what else may be wrong, you need to establish water flow through the exhaust, check the easy stuff first, but your going into the heat exchanger, if nothing else to fish out the remains of the impeller
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Old 24-11-2014, 12:15   #58
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Re: Next Step to Get Diesel Started

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You were cranking with the water intake through hull shut off. Did you remember to turn it back on.
Busted. In my excitement from finally having a working engine I did forget to open valve for the first few minutes. And I know that is the likely culprit of the impeller's demise, or at least the final straw in its deterioration. Was hoping to not have to disclose that mistake as it holds no bearing on tackling the HX.
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Old 24-11-2014, 12:21   #59
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Re: Next Step to Get Diesel Started

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Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
A couple things:
I cant remember how much you had the engine apart?
* on some engines you have to fill the block with coolant below the thermostat. Otherwise as the engine heats up, the thermostat doesn't see any heat transfer from the air below it and wont cool.
*Check any heat exchangers for impellor parts (do you have a little exchanger for the transmission?)
I guess the question is did poor water flow destroy the impellor or did the impellor fail?
Engine itself wasn't opened beyond bleeding the injectors. The damage to the impellor was most likely poor water flow as I reluctantly admit to having forgotten to open the seacock...

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I have had this same problem once. It was a bit tricky but I finally got it figured out. I was told to backflush the heat exchanger with a hose. By doing so I created a puzzle of an impeller and kept on back flushing until it was complete. IT worked but took some time. From there I installed a new impeller and thought I was ok. The actual problem turned out to be a small leak in the raw water strainer, which was mounted above the water line, that was allowing air in the system. This would cause the water to loose prime. From there the pump couldn't prime the raw water and then would burn itself up running dry. I had to cut new gaskets for the strainer as replacement parts were not available in the small town I got stuck in. I also lowered the strainer closer tot he waterline. Not sure if this helps but worth looking into.
Great information about the HX, although my strainer is below the waterline and seems to adequately self-prime. Thanks!

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No matter what else may be wrong, you need to establish water flow through the exhaust, check the easy stuff first, but your going into the heat exchanger, if nothing else to fish out the remains of the impeller
The wet exhaust hoses are in need of replacement so I'm going to start with that and then tackle the HX and maybe back flush it as suggested above.
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Old 24-11-2014, 13:36   #60
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Re: Next Step to Get Diesel Started

"Next Step to Get Diesel Started"

Have you considered hiring a qualified diesel mechanic, one certified for your brand of engine?

Sometimes you can do more damage fooling around if you don't know what you are doing.
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