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Old 03-11-2014, 08:24   #16
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Re: Next Step to Get Diesel Started

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Originally Posted by DeepFrz View Post
Set up a small fuel supply that is gravity fed so that you can bypass all fuel lines and filters to see if you can start to narrow down the problem.
Thank you everybody. I won't be able to get back to boat this weekend but will try and resume this the next weekend. Hopefully, this will not progress beyond the injectors and pump!
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Old 03-11-2014, 08:56   #17
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Re: Next Step to Get Diesel Started

For those interested, I should add that my slip neighbor had me attempt to start while he looked into the engine manifold through the air intake (you can actually see the bottom of one of the injectors). He said there was no evidence of fuel actually coming through the injectors. He confirmed that fuel was making it at least to the injectors but for some reason wasn't making it through them into the manifold.
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Old 03-11-2014, 11:28   #18
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Re: Next Step to Get Diesel Started

Here are some of the simple things that are most common. Some have been covered.

Your engine was running before you changed the fuel filters, right? Rough but running, right?

Your stop cable or selenoid might be in the wrong position to start your engine.

When you crank your engine to bleed the injectors you may run down your battery and the engine will not spin fast enough to get enough compression quickly to fire. You need to start with a fully charged battery.

You may still have air in your fuel lines. The least little bit of air will prevent the injectors from delivering the proper spray pattern into the cylinder to get it to fire.

You can bleed your fuel lines to the injection pump by the primer hand pump but from that point from injection pump to injector you must push the starter button and open the nut on top the injector simultaneously until there are no bubbles in your fuel supply at the injector. Then you must tighten that nut before you stop the engine from spinning. Doing one injector at a time will keep you from running your starter motor too much. This is very hard to do by yourself unless your starter button is in the engine room. You need a partner who will push the starter button while you are opening and closing the nut on the injector.

Make certain your cooling water supply is closed so you don't flood your engine with water. Once your engine is running then open that supply quickly to prevent damage to your water pump cooling vanes.

Do you have an electric fuel pump in the fuel line before your filters? Is it pushing fuel through your system to the injection pump?

If you suspect your fuel supply or your filter connections then disconnect your fuel supply line to the injector pump and attach a very clean separate supply (fuel can or outboard motor tank with diesel in it). Mount it higher than your engine to supply gravity feed.

I would do all of these things before starting to take parts off your engine. Yes, your injectors might need testing but that might not be why you can't get it running.

Good luck. I hope others reply and set me straight if I've given the wrong advice.
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Old 03-11-2014, 11:44   #19
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Re: Next Step to Get Diesel Started

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(you can actually see the bottom of one of the injectors)
You sure your not looking at the tip of a glow plug?
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Old 03-11-2014, 11:50   #20
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Re: Next Step to Get Diesel Started

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Originally Posted by SkiprJohn View Post
Here are some of the simple things that are most common. Some have been covered.



Your engine was running before you changed the fuel filters, right? Rough but running, right?



Your stop cable or selenoid might be in the wrong position to start your engine.



When you crank your engine to bleed the injectors you may run down your battery and the engine will not spin fast enough to get enough compression quickly to fire. You need to start with a fully charged battery.



You may still have air in your fuel lines. The least little bit of air will prevent the injectors from delivering the proper spray pattern into the cylinder to get it to fire.



You can bleed your fuel lines to the injection pump by the primer hand pump but from that point from injection pump to injector you must push the starter button and open the nut on top the injector simultaneously until there are no bubbles in your fuel supply at the injector. Then you must tighten that nut before you stop the engine from spinning. Doing one injector at a time will keep you from running your starter motor too much. This is very hard to do by yourself unless your starter button is in the engine room. You need a partner who will push the starter button while you are opening and closing the nut on the injector.



Make certain your cooling water supply is closed so you don't flood your engine with water. Once your engine is running then open that supply quickly to prevent damage to your water pump cooling vanes.



Do you have an electric fuel pump in the fuel line before your filters? Is it pushing fuel through your system to the injection pump?



If you suspect your fuel supply or your filter connections then disconnect your fuel supply line to the injector pump and attach a very clean separate supply (fuel can or outboard motor tank with diesel in it). Mount it higher than your engine to supply gravity feed.



I would do all of these things before starting to take parts off your engine. Yes, your injectors might need testing but that might not be why you can't get it running.



Good luck. I hope others reply and set me straight if I've given the wrong advice.

Thank you. I've decided to try and go back there this evening and try and tackle the suggestions provided.


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Old 03-11-2014, 11:51   #21
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Re: Next Step to Get Diesel Started

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You sure your not looking at the tip of a glow plug?

Not sure. Took the word of the guy that briefly helped me. The intake is right under the injectors so it seemed logical.


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Old 03-11-2014, 12:53   #22
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Re: Next Step to Get Diesel Started

Think about it a moment: Injection occurs when the valves are closed and the piston is near TDC. There is no way that one can see the injector tip under those conditions on any engine. Dunno what your pal was looking at, but his feedback was meaningless.

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Old 03-11-2014, 12:58   #23
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Re: Next Step to Get Diesel Started

I'm pretty sure that no Diesel injects fuel into the intake manifold, I believe some if not most of our small Diesels are what is called an Indirect injection which does have a pre-chamber, but it's a section of the head subject to combustion pressure, the direct injection motors inject directly into the combustion chamber.
Spark ignition engines like automobiles do inject gasoline in front of the intake valve.
Since your going to remove the injectors anyway, remove one and see if it sprays.
This thing doesn't even try to run?
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Old 03-11-2014, 13:01   #24
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Re: Next Step to Get Diesel Started

You sure the fuel is turned on, does it have a stop solenoid? Sorry I don't know specifics about your engine.
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Old 03-11-2014, 13:05   #25
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Re: Next Step to Get Diesel Started

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Think about it a moment: Injection occurs when the valves are closed and the piston is near TDC. There is no way that one can see the injector tip under those conditions on any engine. Dunno what your pal was looking at, but his feedback was meaningless.

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I may have easily misunderstood him.

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This thing doesn't even try to run?
Not at all which is perplexing since it ran quite smoothly up until last weekend. I've decided this is beyond the scope of my neophyte abilities and am considering just sucking it up and getting a mechanic to investigate before I do some real damage. This evening I am going to test the glow plugs and if they are not the culprit, I'll bite the professional bullet. I appreciate everyone's help as I have still learned a thing or two.
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Old 03-11-2014, 13:12   #26
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Re: Next Step to Get Diesel Started

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You sure the fuel is turned on, does it have a stop solenoid? Sorry I don't know specifics about your engine.
No need to apologize! I have tested fuel all the way to the injectors. No stop solenoid; just a kill lever on or next to where the throttle cable/rod connects to engine.
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Old 03-11-2014, 13:14   #27
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Re: Next Step to Get Diesel Started

You know how to test glow plugs? Only way I know is to disconnect them and test resistance with a multi-meter, most I think are in series, which means if one in a four cyl engine burns out the three remaining ones get all the juice meant for four, which means they can fail fast.
Still check to see whatever turns your fuel off, whether it be a stop pull cable of solenoid is functioning correctly, simple check and can't hurt.
seems odd she was running fine, then suddenly wouldn't crank, that's not the way I would expect fuel contamination to work
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Old 03-11-2014, 13:19   #28
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Re: Next Step to Get Diesel Started

Obviously see if the plugs are getting current too.
Al the failed glow plug scenarios I've seen during starting attempt there would still be smoke out the exhaust and unless really cold it would start, just slowly, as in hitting on one cylinder intermittently, hold the starter engaged, lots of smoke and slowly more cylinder begin to fire and she's running.
Be sure to never introduce starting fluid into a glow plug equipped engine, the resultant detonation can break things like starters, bell housings and cylinder heads.
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Old 03-11-2014, 13:21   #29
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Re: Next Step to Get Diesel Started

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Be carefull crankning too much without the engine running as you can introduce water into your exaust system
Don't forget this, close your seacock while testing, but open it of course when she starts
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Old 03-11-2014, 13:24   #30
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Re: Next Step to Get Diesel Started

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You know how to test glow plugs? Only way I know is to disconnect them and test resistance with a multi-meter, most I think are in series, which means if one in a four cyl engine burns out the three remaining ones get all the juice meant for four, which means they can fail fast.
Still check to see whatever turns your fuel off, whether it be a stop pull cable of solenoid is functioning correctly, simple check and can't hurt.
seems odd she was running fine, then suddenly wouldn't crank, that's not the way I would expect fuel contamination to work
As per the manual, the resistance over the plugs can be tested in place after disconnecting the leads.

when I was tinkering around yesterday I was wondering about how to test the kill lever but didn't see an apparent way to as it is a metal lever. The attached photo is the only one I have of the engine. The shut off is the lever in the lower left corner of photo.
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