New yacht - Old engine?

[GrowleyMonster]

For twin diesels, go with the high tech modern ones. You can always limp along with just one if one quits on you. While they are both running, you have quiet, efficient trouble free operation.



For single engine going the way less traveled, keep it very simple and have plenty of spares, and the shop manual. A Beta is a sound choice. Also everything is out front, on the Beta. Oil changes are nice and easy. Great sailboat engine. And most of the parts are available from the local tractor dealership.

[Larry Florida]

An engine install has a high cost of labor. Put the best engine in you can as only variable is cost of engine labor cost is a constant. i.e. no sense putting in a $1000 engine when labor is $2000.

Or you can sail over to Asia where the reverse is true.

[sy_gilana]

Absolutely go with older.


In fact, I would go for a BUKH without any doubt.


The most reliable diesel engine in the world.


Factory reconditioned units available.


BUKH - The most reliable Marine Diesel Engines in the world

[a64pilot]

I get the I can’t fix it myself thought, even though I think it’s incorrect.
But as far as NVH, which is Noise, Vibration and Harshness, no mechanical injection Diesel can come anywhere near to a common rail.
Just go drive a modern pickup, or heck go to a dealership and ask them to start one. Hearing is believing, and smoothness has a lot more to do to it than number of cylinders, that plays a big part of course, but a four cylinder can be made decently smooth.
There are a half dozen sensors, usually very easy to access and very robust and reliable, and one computer. Now the computer isn’t cheap, likely about as expensive as a regular injection pump, but they are in fact very reliable and no, it’s very unlikely that they will be affected from an EMP.
Think of how much more reliable cars are today as opposed to 40 years ago. You don’t do anything to them for 100,000 miles. I changed the spark plugs in our Prius at 125,000 miles, and they were still good, had many more thousands of miles to go.
Now that it has about 225,000 miles on it there has not been any additional part ever out on that engine, no sensors, nothing but oil and filters, including of course air filter, but nothing else.
I guess I’ll put its second set of replacement plugs in when it rolls over a quarter million miles.
Yeah, modern engine suck, it was much better in the 70’s when if you got 100,000 miles out of one it was considered exceptional.

[Compass790]

Originally Posted by SteveWrightNZ

The reasons were stated in the first post, cleanliness, quietness, better range, and just to have a nice quiet and smooth modern engine.

Your suggestion that these engines are assembled from all sorts of piecemeal electronics with exposed connections isn't a valid criticism. They are made from quality electronics with sealed connectors, and in automotive use the large majority of them run their entire lives with nary a spanner put near them - a record that many marine engines could take a lesson from.

With plenty of inexpensive spares there is no reason why a complicated electronic automotive conversion couldn't be used. The problem mainly, is whether the skipper is happy with that.

Let us know how you get on with a complicated electronic automotive conversion if you go that way. ( With lots of cheap spares ) BTW have you priced a CPU? I'd like to see it work as agree modern car engines are way better but haven't seen any @ sea.

[Heatherzdad]

The big questions are:

1. How many hours are you going to put on the engine on an annual basis?

2. Where are you taking the boat?

3. Are parts and service available everywhere?

Newer engines will be more efficient but this will be reflected in the price of the engine.

Make sure that you use a marine engine only.

Pick a brand that you can get parts and service for, in case of trouble.

A used engine might be acceptable, provided that you have access to service records and it doesn't have a million hours on it.

You may be able to find a rebuilt engine at reasonable cost.

Make sure that the engine has enough power to get you back to the dock during bad weather.

[Wetdoc]

Originally Posted by mikecambrai

The old 'oil' engine, such as Perkins, Daf, Ford Dorset etc in the marine environment were extremely reliable and still are.
So my vote must go to an old engine refurbed professionally.

Hi mikecambrai
The owner of the Novara ( Schooner Bestevaer 60 with AeroRig ) agree with this.
That's why before doingmake the Northwest Passage, after sail to Antártida and now sailing in Brazil before complete the America circumnavigation, he preferred to re-manufacture the old and beloved Perkins instead of putting a new one with new technologies and new problems.
See:
https://www.sy-novara.com/single-pos...12/Work-Begins


https://www.sy-novara.com/single-post/2014/03/11/30000-recon


https://www.sy-novara.com/single-post/2014/03/18/A-Tight-Fit

https://www.sy-novara.com/single-pos...in-and-running

https://www.sy-novara.com/photo-gallery-2

Complete track: Novara - Steve Brown

Omar Wetdoc

[Peregrine1983]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I get the I can’t fix it myself thought, even though I think it’s incorrect.
But as far as NVH, which is Noise, Vibration and Harshness, no mechanical injection Diesel can come anywhere near to a common rail.
Just go drive a modern pickup, or heck go to a dealership and ask them to start one. Hearing is believing, and smoothness has a lot more to do to it than number of cylinders, that plays a big part of course, but a four cylinder can be made decently smooth.
There are a half dozen sensors, usually very easy to access and very robust and reliable, and one computer. Now the computer isn’t cheap, likely about as expensive as a regular injection pump, but they are in fact very reliable and no, it’s very unlikely that they will be affected from an EMP.
Think of how much more reliable cars are today as opposed to 40 years ago. You don’t do anything to them for 100,000 miles. I changed the spark plugs in our Prius at 125,000 miles, and they were still good, had many more thousands of miles to go.
Now that it has about 225,000 miles on it there has not been any additional part ever out on that engine, no sensors, nothing but oil and filters, including of course air filter, but nothing else.
I guess I’ll put its second set of replacement plugs in when it rolls over a quarter million miles.
Yeah, modern engine suck, it was much better in the 70’s when if you got 100,000 miles out of one it was considered exceptional.

I see both sides of this. I have a modern car with a 1.8 liter twin-turbo diesel that hauls a$$ and gets me 55mpg on the highway. It's an amazing piece of engineering. I love that engine. However, I wouldn't have the slightest clue how to service it.

I have an ancient Westerbeke (6000 hours total, 3000 after a rebuild) in my boat that, as another poster said, I often wonder if I can do more to "help it". It's just great. I change the filters, the impellers, the oil and watch the temperature. It's been incredibly reliable. I recently needed it to push our boat at 6 kts for 24 hours straight. Did the job without a hiccup.

[hellosailor]

You have to decide what will work for you. First off, if you even consider any rebuilt engine, there's the question of how good the source is and what the warranty will be. On newer engines you'll be getting something smaller and quieter--but often that means turbocharged with computer controls, all more vulnerable to failure and expensive repairs. The old "obsolete" mechanical injectors and fuel pumps had a lot less to go wrong.

What will physically fit, have the right amount of power, and tick off your other boxes, will probably limit you to only a few engines, especially if there are a limited number of authorized suppliers in your area. You may also want to check out who really "makes" the engine you buy. Some Volvo's are Perkins with new paint. Some have different parts. And Westerbeke actually makes nothing--they contract out to a wide range of makers, and then slap gobs of pretty red paint all over what they assembled. Including all the hoses, which are never supposed to be painted since that starts drying out and corroding the rubber parts.

[a64pilot]

The only thing that I can think of that will stop me from overhauling my 4JHE when it needs it, is if the parts are no longer available or are getting difficult to find.
I wouldn’t want an “orphaned” engine. Other than that, I think people that plop down that big check to buy a new engine are nuts

[GinoDelG]

I have a 30 year old Perkins 4-236 that runs beautifully. It burns 1 gal per hour at 1600 rpm. How much better fuel economy would you want?

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by GinoDelG

I have a 30 year old Perkins 4-236 that runs beautifully. It burns 1 gal per hour at 1600 rpm. How much better fuel economy would you want?

That is somewhat a myth, I have made the statement here before that a common rail really isn’t much if any more efficient only to have people cry it’s not true, but if you look up the BSFC or brake specific fuel consumption for both, you’ll find them nearly identical, unfortunately, cause I’d love a motor that burned less fuel, for the range increase more than anything else.

[Fence Man]

Hoover's - Glider Kits

Old engines in new equipment is very common...…….

[oldbilbo]

There's wisdom in the Current Owner's words, and in most of the subsequent posts. That represents a whole lot of experience. And I recognise the Original Poster's expressed wishes....


So perhaps the optimum answer is a combination of the perceived merits of both approaches i.e. a brand new engine based on simple, robust and very well-proven design principles. To me that has meant swopping out an very elderly marinised Kubota ex-tractor unit, still running, for a new Beta ( Kubota ) unit that is known to be reliable, has guarantees, and for which any needed parts are readily available world-wide.



Many of the OP's desirable extras and sensors can be 'bolted on' and comprehensive data monitoring can be ported/displayed on a PC/plotter. That does not inhibit the engine's reliability one whit.


As for 'going remote', it is recommended that just about every last identifiable component/spare part is listed - not just 2 or 3 - with any special tools, AND with the contact details of two known suppliers who will ship worldwide. You don't have to trawl far within boaty forums to find tales of frustration and woe from liveaboard owners who've headed off grid, then spent weeks trying to find someone who speaks US English to identify a couple of obscure parts, then more weeks finding somewhere they're available.

[john61ct]

Yes for sure, the key factor is

are you cruising in well-serviced first-world conditions

or venturing into less-developed regions?

The more-mechanical units are suitable for both, common-rail modern designs only for the former.