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Old 25-10-2015, 09:14   #16
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Re: New injectors v rebuilding injectors

For this type of problem you need to eliminate the variables, starting at the easy ones first.

I have the same Westerbeke genset and had the exact same problem. Mine turned out to be a bad water temp shutoff switch. There is also a low oil pressure shutoff switch so it could be either.

Easy way to check. Both switches have two wires going to them with spade connectors. Just take off the wires and attach them together. That bypasses the bad switch and will complete the circuit.

Hopefully she fires right up like mine did!!
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Old 25-10-2015, 09:34   #17
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Re: New injectors v rebuilding injectors

Any chance this engine has a compression release?
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Old 25-10-2015, 10:03   #18
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Re: New injectors v rebuilding injectors

I have no clue if all who are answering read the replies. No firing with ether means no combustion in the cylinders. That is what needs to be addressed. Detailed comments apply. Filters on the fuel system have no effect on ether, speed of starter does, fuel pumps or filters except on air intake, have no effect on ether combustion in the cylinders. Pay attention to what is getting into the cylinders and also the starter power as places to look, per the suggestions. There are some very good suggestions here as well as some poorly directed ones. . The statements that the injectors are not the cause and the fuel lift pump is not the cause have to be given consideration.. One thing may be blocked air intake, which means the ether was not getting to the cylinders. Where were you spraying the ether?
Some more history and answers to the questions would allow better answers or follow ups.
Remember the old computer statement, GIGO, garbage in, garbage out. Well, more information in is needed for a good result beyond the good educated comments already stated.
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Old 25-10-2015, 10:05   #19
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Re: New injectors v rebuilding injectors

Check the flux compositor!!!
Fuel fuel fuel, if you got compression!!
Common problem frozen plunger from fuel varnish in the injection pump won't allow control rack to move won't get any fuel to any of the cylinders.


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Old 25-10-2015, 10:46   #20
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Re: New injectors v rebuilding injectors

Ihave the same genset and had the same problem. If it didn't fire with ether then you have a compression problem. It should be around 455 psi. Use a GOOD guage. Lots of Marvel Mystery oil can sometimes free the rings. I had pits in the head and a had valve seats made. Like new!!
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Old 25-10-2015, 10:50   #21
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Re: New injectors v rebuilding injectors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikado View Post
For this type of problem you need to eliminate the variables, starting at the easy ones first.

I have the same Westerbeke genset and had the exact same problem. Mine turned out to be a bad water temp shutoff switch. There is also a low oil pressure shutoff switch so it could be either.

Easy way to check. Both switches have two wires going to them with spade connectors. Just take off the wires and attach them together. That bypasses the bad switch and will complete the circuit.

Hopefully she fires right up like mine did!!
Great info on the safety switches but if the governor pulls back all the switches are functioning
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Old 25-10-2015, 11:02   #22
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Re: New injectors v rebuilding injectors

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Originally Posted by SAIL23692 View Post
Great info on the safety switches but if the governor pulls back all the switches are functioning
Until I bypassed the bad high temp switch mine would not fire, even with the start switch engaged.
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Old 25-10-2015, 11:16   #23
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Re: New injectors v rebuilding injectors

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevebein View Post
I have no clue if all who are answering read the replies. No firing with ether means no combustion in the cylinders. That is what needs to be addressed. Detailed comments apply. Filters on the fuel system have no effect on ether, speed of starter does, fuel pumps or filters except on air intake, have no effect on ether combustion in the cylinders. Pay attention to what is getting into the cylinders and also the starter power as places to look, per the suggestions. There are some very good suggestions here as well as some poorly directed ones. . The statements that the injectors are not the cause and the fuel lift pump is not the cause have to be given consideration.. One thing may be blocked air intake, which means the ether was not getting to the cylinders. Where were you spraying the ether?
Some more history and answers to the questions would allow better answers or follow ups.
Remember the old computer statement, GIGO, garbage in, garbage out. Well, more information in is needed for a good result beyond the good educated comments already stated.
Well you can only lead the horse to water. Suggest sailing out into deeper water, open seacocks and submit claim. Maybe I'll get sanctioned for this one.
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Old 25-10-2015, 13:29   #24
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Re: New injectors v rebuilding injectors

Rite on monkey
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Old 25-10-2015, 13:37   #25
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Re: New injectors v rebuilding injectors

Ok, I have not been drinking so the last suggestion, while it did make me laugh, is not good, my wife says my penchant for old boats is a sickness.

And yes, my info is sketchy because what I am getting from the mechanic is sketchy, and on my really old boat, I am still maintaining a Universal A-4. All this no spark stuff isn't natural you know.😎

The real question is do I let him play it out, or change mechanics at this point.

Acid test. He said the attached water pump needed to be replaced because the stains indicate bad bearing on the shaft. Yes no?

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Old 25-10-2015, 13:39   #26
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Re: New injectors v rebuilding injectors

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Originally Posted by DumnMad View Post
Yes could also be starter coil issues.
I've never heard of a starter coil before. What does it do?
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Old 25-10-2015, 14:03   #27
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Re: New injectors v rebuilding injectors

If there's a fault in your starter motor electrics it could be the starter turns the motor over too slow for it to fire.
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Old 25-10-2015, 17:32   #28
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Re: New injectors v rebuilding injectors

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Originally Posted by Pirateking View Post
Ok, I have not been drinking so the last suggestion, while it did make me laugh, is not good, my wife says my penchant for old boats is a sickness.

And yes, my info is sketchy because what I am getting from the mechanic is sketchy, and on my really old boat, I am still maintaining a Universal A-4. All this no spark stuff isn't natural you know.��

The real question is do I let him play it out, or change mechanics at this point.

Acid test. He said the attached water pump needed to be replaced because the stains indicate bad bearing on the shaft. Yes no?

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If the mechanic actually said 'This water pump needs to be replaced', without at least telling you that it is typical to rebuild them first, I'd say let him go. All parts for pumps like that are generally available from a variety of sources (not necessarily Westerbeke) at substantial cost savings over a new pump. Chances are good that you need only to replace seals, but most people replace seals, bearings and impeller at the same time, since they're already in there anyway (the impeller is a regular wear item, and bearings and seals are cheap and available from the local bearing shop [Motion Industries or the like]).

Small diesel engines are actually simpler than gas engines (roughly a third less variables), as you get to know them they grow on you. Two answers would really help for troubleshooting, the actual model number of the gen set, and the background conditions, i.e. was the engine running fine and suddenly shut down, never to 'fire' again, or has it been getting steadily worse and worse. It seems unlikely that you'd lose compression on all three cylinders at the same time, with ether (used very sparingly, like putting on perfume) and proper rotation speed you should get some attempts to start. Make sure the generator end is not energized while trying to start.

Poor, unconscientious mechanics are a dime a dozen, you'll probably go through half a dozen to find a good one...
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Old 25-10-2015, 18:28   #29
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Re: New injectors v rebuilding injectors

He said it was a sign shaft was getting worn, would not fail immediately, but was in process of failing, never mentioned rebuilding. It complicates matters that the genset is mounted transversely under the helm with service side accessible from a panel in aft cabin but backside and both ends accessible only by a contortionist through the port and starboard cockpit lockers. Island packet did not build friendly access on this hull.

It is a Westerbeke 7.6 kW BTD 60hz (110), 5.7 kW BTD 50hz (220). We are running 110.

I think it impossible that all three cylinders are bad, but that goes not only to the injector letting compression out theory, but also to bad valve, bad piston, etc.

It has been running perfectly, although has always required glow plug, even in hot weather, and holding glow on for 5 sec or so after engine starts.

I ran it 3-4 weeks ago routinely, with load, for 20 Min. Shut down normal kill switch way. No problem or funny noise. 2 months ago, oil pressure sensor went out, would start w switch depressed, but die when released. Westerbeke tech support (I am really good at getting the headquarters tech support on the line) said replace the sensor, start w oil, I did, perfect since.

I have two crazy thoughts. (I) that the kill switch has locked in kill, even though mech has unplugged the wires, or (II) some one posted that the high temp sensor isn't bypassed by the start switch. That it will lock out the engine.

Better detail?


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Old 25-10-2015, 18:35   #30
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Re: New injectors v rebuilding injectors

2nd response. There have been several Starter Motor comments. I do think the starter motor is turning slightly slower. But maybe I have never had to listen to it before. Would slightly slower starter keep ether from firing. It isn't dead slow, but maybe a little slower.


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