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Old 23-04-2006, 00:16   #31
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I was pretty much thinking the same thing, Kai. But, ya beat me to it!! :cubalibre
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Old 23-04-2006, 00:50   #32
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Great minds think alike.
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Old 23-04-2006, 00:57   #33
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Sometimes we don't think alike. As much as I would like too!!
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Old 23-04-2006, 03:04   #34
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I did a quick search and was shocked as to what turned up. There are dozens and dozens of these craft. On one site, it stated that solid wing technology sail boats has been around for about 100yrs. See I told ya, the old fellows stoll our inventions again. Anyways, the Cat I was thinking of turns out to be a Tri. It was a 43ft Zephyr. The wing was designed by a fellow by the name of Walker. Here are a couple of links.
www.lusas.com/case/composite/wingsail.html
www.solarnavigator.net/wing_sail.htm
I can remember seeing the news article on this, but I didn't realise it was so long ago.
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Old 23-04-2006, 07:02   #35
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Yep Alan.

That's what I was thinking of too!!

Like Kai said. Great minds do think alike!!

Now since there is no photo gallery. Everybody now knows what we're talking about!!
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Old 23-04-2006, 08:30   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai Nui
Richhh, it already is Can't you see the glow?
While I firmly believe politics is behind the 16mpg gas guzzlers that still clutter our roadways, I really do not want this to become a political discussion. I seriously believe that a large group of intelligent people can come up with a viable solution. There is little incentive for the commercial market to do it. The returns will not support the R&D. If we want to make this happen, it will have to come from within the boating community from people who are not politically motivated, and can think outside the box.
As an owner of three very small oil wells, let me tell you that politics definitely has a lot to do with the energy mess that the USA is starting to be in. 1. The USA policy of restraining refining capacity development is probably the GREATEST influence of rising prices at this time. Domestically, we are awash with oil; but, simply cant refine the stuff -- that creates a supply/demand crisis that artifically jacks the price. 2. The transportation of continent to continent crude oil is severely throttled by the lack of sufficient carriers ... and those that do exist cannot find 'port priviledges' in the USA (have to be offloaded offshore because the port facilities are too small and will remain so due to 'politics' ... not in MY back yard ... name/identify ONE super-tanker port on the US west or east coast). 3. The limitations imposed on drilling, developing and further exploration in already discovered fields (North Slope, Atlantic Continental Shelf {natural gas}, etc.) again creates a huge supply/demand imbalance. All these are 'political' restraints that shift supply/demand artificially.

If you want to discuss 'alternative fuels' such as ethanol ... just where do think this needs to be made: refineries ... and we dont have the refining capacity because of LEFT WING and 'tree hugger' imposed restraints. One has only to look at Brazil where since the 1970s the switch from petroleum to ethanol based chemistry has that very populous nation **totally independent** in its energy needs .... they use multifuel engines and *grow* their fuel - 90%. Brazil is totally independent ... and only have 5-10% from oil. Then, Lets look at the coal reserves in the USA that could be easily converted from solid fuel to petroleum in already developed technology (Sassol Process - the same process that allowed South Africa and Nazi Germany to be totally independent from imported petroleum). The proven coal reserves in the USA at current projection including growth are at 500 years supply ... again, the restraints on mining and refining severely limit and restrains this source. The economic 'break-even' value for coal to petroleum conversion was $1.75/US gallon (in $1985 dollars) ... why didnt this happen: LEFT WING POLITICS ... not in my back yard !!!!!
The USA is awash in potential energy sources ... and its mostly artificially constrained ... by politics.

So the ANSWER to this whole discussion is that the 'intellegent' discussion is of no consequence .... until the tree huggers and disaffected LEFTists simply let the natural economic forces prevail. Its either that or let the USA supply of $$$ capital continue to move/migrate offshore into other hands (OPEC etc.) until there is not enough capital left in the USA to do ANYTHING and the USA simply becomes a very poor and large member of the 'third world'. Its really THAT serious. Improvement's in 'consumption technology' (more efficient engines, etc.) only delays the inevetible on the demand/supply curve. If you havent noticed the US supply of capital has shrunk by about ~20-30% in the past 20 years and the 'foreigners' are no longer interested in buying USA bonds to support us and our 'economy' ... decreasing lack of economic confidence in USA because of this drain. The parallel is like being on a boat on the largest, most pristine fresh water lake in the world .... and then dying of thirst because 'politics' forbids 'drinking from unapproved/unauthorized sources'. Have a nice day. Think about it. ;-)
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Old 23-04-2006, 09:30   #37
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Richhh, open your mind, man. Are you telling me the Oil Companies, White House, Congress and Senate are run by Tree Huggers and Leftists???

Do you really think that any law that affects the Oil Companies gets passed without thier approval?

Thimmk, man...

Who is benefitting from the high oil/gas prices? Leftists? Tree Huggers? Oil Companies? Political Parties?


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Old 23-04-2006, 09:42   #38
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Let me lay on you this fact. In 1985 a barrel of benchmark crude was $24/bbl and the cost of a gallon of gasoline was $1.25. Today the same benchmark crude is $75/bbl and the cost is $3.00/gallon. Do you see any White House or Congressional conspiracy in this?

Then remember that the USA *buys* nearly 60-70% from 'offshore' and the offshore market (well heads) 'sets the price' of crude. So tell me how the 'oil companies' who BUY the oil from other sources are the villians when the efficiency of transporting and refining is the principal artificial bottleneck thats driving up the prices. Sorry the treehuggers and Leftists ARE to blame for MUCH of this mess.
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Old 23-04-2006, 09:59   #39
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Ah yes, and what was the price of gas in 1974?
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Old 23-04-2006, 10:01   #40
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Old 23-04-2006, 11:01   #41
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Two quick comments and i'll be gone....

1) READ Atlas Shruged, soon...the sooner the better!!

2) Support HR25, The Fair tax www.fairtax.org
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Old 23-04-2006, 11:10   #42
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Well DeepFrz
the 1970s oil shocks were totally and artificially instigated by government intereference by 'wage & price controls' that totally upset the demand/supply. And you want 'more' government intereference? ... of the same kind that lead to the not too recent California debacle in power generation costs .... I dont think so.
Petroleum is driving force of the 'world market' and unless the country that you happen to be in is a net exporter of the stuff (surplus of supply, surplus of refining capacity) then you are simply subject to the whims of the world economics; and, no matter what 'governments' think they can legislate or not because government simply dont 'make' petroleum. Its just the simplicity of 'global economics'.

Before China and India needed and competed for 25% of the worlds petro capacity to meet their needs the costs were quite stable. Now that those two entities have essentially reduced that 25% from 'other' countries .... the market prices naturally go up. Thats just simple economics that 'politicians' have NO control, .... other than to make much artificially much worse.
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Old 23-04-2006, 12:11   #43
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Old 23-04-2006, 16:44   #44
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k

What about electric power?The batteries can be the ballast.You can recharge with pannels as well as turning a generator through the water when cruising conventionally.Sounds crazy and there are probably a million reasons why not to,but i thought i would throw myself at the lions.
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Old 23-04-2006, 16:50   #45
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That doesn't sound like a bad idea, Dman.

I'm sure there is some good, out of that setup. For the technology?

Sorta falls into hybred technology?
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