New boat, which engine?! 3YM30|SD20 29hp or 3JH5E|SD50 39hp?

[Bunt]

Smaller engine has the SD20s and larger the SD50s. From what I've read the SD50s have more problems w/ cone slippage, but the 3YM30 according to the manual requires a haul-out every 100 hours (?!) for oil change. Changing 1/4 oil easily accessible every 25 hours may be reasonable alternative (although of course is not equivalent, a small amount of oil will never get replaced w/ this approach).

Private liveaboard boat intended for offshore cruising. The Lagoon 39 cat is a fat 11tons+.

Any opinions appreciated!

Thanks,
Brent

[Paul L]

100 hour haulout would be a non-starter for me and probably any cruiser. Are you sure about this?

[Bunt]

I agree, and yet it's right there in the manual (http://yanmar.com/product/marineplea...OM_27MAR09.pdf). Page 36 specifies change Lubricating Oil every 100 hours for SD20 (250 hours for SD50), page 39 states "When the vessel is out of the water, drain the oil...".

I have to select among these engines now -- I'd be happy with the 29hp otherwise I believe. Is this real, do I really have to haul the cat every 100 hours to maintain a brand new saildrive and stay under warranty..?!

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by Bunt

Smaller engine has the SD20s and larger the SD50s. From what I've read the SD50s have more problems w/ cone slippage, but the 3YM30 according to the manual requires a haul-out every 100 hours (?!) for oil change. Changing 1/4 oil easily accessible every 25 hours may be reasonable alternative (although of course is not equivalent, a small amount of oil will never get replaced w/ this approach).

Private liveaboard boat intended for offshore cruising. The Lagoon 39 cat is a fat 11tons+.

Any opinions appreciated!

Thanks,
Brent

Double-check that info about the '30 before making a choice based on it, because I believe someone was blowing smoke up your pants leg there.

[zeehag]

the sailing we did with a 3jh series yannie--we did change the oil every 100 miles but we did not haul it out to do that. hauling to change oil is a tad severe. one need not haul to change oil.. changing oil, however, every 100 hours is recommended for any diesel engine.

[boatpoker]

Google "service bulletin, advisory, recall" for any engine model you are interested in and you'll find some info. ie. there is an advisory on 3YM30's up to serial no. 05566 regarding overheating due to inadequate heat exchangers.

You absolutely do not have to haul a boat to do an oil change.

Most diesel manuals can also be found on line and many will give different oil change periods depending on usage. My HT354 Perkins requires oil changes every 100hrs or annually on a light use schedule then goes on to say that with a heavy use schedule oil should be changed every 250hrs.

What's that you say ? Real men don't read manuals !

[zeehag]

rodlmao--my mechanic actually read my perkins manual--i guess he aint a real man despite his noises to contrary--he wont ask directions, he does have a remote--for his entire boat..lol
he is canadian, mebbe that is different??

he doesnt screw tho,which i find refreshing.

[jgbrown]

Originally Posted by Bunt

Smaller engine has the SD20s and larger the SD50s. From what I've read the SD50s have more problems w/ cone slippage, but the 3YM30 according to the manual requires a haul-out every 100 hours (?!) for oil change. Changing 1/4 oil easily accessible every 25 hours may be reasonable alternative (although of course is not equivalent, a small amount of oil will never get replaced w/ this approach).

Private liveaboard boat intended for offshore cruising. The Lagoon 39 cat is a fat 11tons+.

Any opinions appreciated!

Thanks,
Brent

Bit confused, are you talking about oil in a sail drive, or engine?

[Captain Bill]

It's the sd20 that must be pulled every 100 hours for an oil change, not the engine. The issue with the SD20 is that it does not have a way to drain the oil from inside the boat. I don't know any cruiser that actually hauls the boat to change the sail drive oil that often. The SD50's oil can be changed from the top. I don't think either drive was designed for motoring. These are sailboats after all. These things are supposed to be used to get you in and out of the marina on weekends 3 or 4 months a year. I don't think it ever occurred to the engineers that someone would motor any distance with them and actually use them in the tropics year round. 100 hours would get you through a couple of years in their minds. They never thought of someone motoring 1500 miles up the icw and having to haul out and do an oil change once a week. I just found out that Beta Marine is now offering a saildrive.
I don't know any details, but it might be worth checking it out. Several people at my old marina repowered with Beta Marine (located about 15 miles down the road) and they've been very happy with them, but no one had sail drives.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by zeehag

the sailing we did with a 3jh series yannie--we did change the oil every 100 miles but we did not haul it out to do that. hauling to change oil is a tad severe. one need not haul to change oil.. changing oil, however, every 100 hours is recommended for any diesel engine.

I got the 20 hp version of the engine just about 2 years ago and I believe the manual also said to change the oil after the first 10 hours as well. I just hate to see anyone put off those engines because of something like that. Everything is so much more accessible on the new one. On the old one I had to take the water pump off to change the impeller. Now I change it *before* it breaks, easy peasy as they say.

[DotDun]

The SD20 runs 80/90w gear oil when match with 20-30hp. IMO, it doesn't need an oil change every 100 hours. With no water ingress, the oil will last as long as bottom paint.

[Bunt]

To clarify the 100 hour change is for the lubrication oil for the SD20 saildrive attached to the 3YM39, not for the engine oil.

As Captain Bill stated the SD20 requires hauling while the the SD50 doesn't. However, from what I've read the SD50s have all kinds of problems w/ the cone clutch at 500, 800 hours etc. so I'd like to avoid them, I believe.

Several threads (http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...tion-1666.html, http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...leg-26306.html) describe following ideas/solutions:
1. Change oil from top. If turkey baster or bump can get 1/2 the oil at a time then 7 changes would get < 1% of original oil left. Do complete drain during annual haul.
2. Change oil by beaching, digging bucket into sand if little tidal change.
3. (optional) plumb an oil reservoir above the waterline to maintain a slight positive pressure on the oil in order to minimize possible water ingress. Seems nuts to do ad-hoc stuff like this on brand-new kit but hey I'm no mechanic.

Unless any other thoughts I'll stick with the 3YM30 29hps then. Surprised no-one objected to bluewater cruising trip on a 13+ ton boat w/ only 29hps on each hull but I should be sailing on/off the anchor anyway right?!

Cheers all,
Brent

[Captain Bill]

My old dock neighbor has 29 hp yanmars on his Manta. It's probably a bit lighter than the Lagoon, but he has no trouble with it. I have Yanmar 40hp on my Endeavourcat. The Endeavourcat 44 is probably closer to your lagoon in windage and weight. I also have feathering props. Feathering props are not very efficient because they have flat blades. Compared to properly curved folding props I give up about a knot at cruise RPM in comparison to other boats with the same set up and folding props. Of course I have much more positive reverse thrust. I cruise at 6 knots on one engine in smooth water and 7 knots on two. Having the extra horsepower is nice when in a narrow channel and going against a stiff wind. You might want to consider the 39 hp. Oddly the same engine seems to be rated at one more HP when attached to a sail drive. I have the SD40 msail drives and cannot recommend them. You should also note that while many will tell you that Yanmar parts are available anywhere, that has not been my experience with sail drive parts. Even in the states I have had to have things as simple as a prop shaft seal (a maintenance part supposed to be replaced every 2 years) shipped in from over seas with a six week wait. I once had a drive rebuilt rather than replaced because a saildrive without an engine attached was a 90 day wait, delivery not gauranteed. Apparently If I wanted to replace the whole engine/drive combination, those were available, but a saildrive alone had to be shipped by boat from Japan. I think you have made a wise decision not going with the saildrives, but you may want to consider the bigger engines.

[Bunt]

Hey Captain Bill, ah that's the rub you see, the 3YM30 (29hp) has the SD20s and the 3JH5E (39hp) has the SD50s. Your boat although 5' longer is 4 tons lighter so I'd much rather have the bigger engines as you've suggested. But that means potentially flaky saildrives, so I am a bit torn. I am trying to find out now from dealer rumoured SD-50 replacement SD60s might be available.

I hear you on the parts issues, have had similar problems with the simplest of items. I plan on mitigating by stocking up and maintaining at least a years worth of seals, rings, anodes, fluids, etc. from day one. That's another ton right there!

[Bunt]

Follow-up for the interested, the 3JH5E is now offered by Lagoon w/ the new SD60 (not SD69 as was stated elsewhere), replacing the SD50. Operation manual for the SD60 is here (http://yanmar.com/product/marineplea...SDM-G00200.pdf). There is no more cone clutch, warnings about degredation over time or mandatory inspection at 500 hours, so I went with the larger 39hp.

Bunt