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Old 07-02-2013, 05:45   #76
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Re: Need some help from the diesel gurus

Sure seems like the starter solenoid. What about the compression test- did I miss that you had done that?
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Old 07-02-2013, 08:04   #77
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Re: Need some help from the diesel gurus

Before I sound too much like the idiot my nearest and dearest know me to be the cable does run to the back of the cockpit and connects to a shifter. Weird huh? when the shifter is in 'neutral' the shut off is set to half on half off, when shifted to forward its on, and when shifted into reverse its off.

I sailed a San Juan that had the stop lever connected to the shifter... Stop Engine = Pull back on shift lever.... Stupidest thing I have ever seen...

As many have said... Voltage is way too low at starter when cranking... I like 3 possibilities... 1)bad starter, dragging or grounding in the housing. 2)bad contacts for the starter motor inside the solenoid. 3)bad cable and/or connections from battery
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Old 07-02-2013, 08:50   #78
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Re: Need some help from the diesel gurus

Ryan, is the 14 volt photo at the solenoid while the engine is cranking? If the battery cable side reading was taken without the load(engine turning over) then it doesnt mean much at all. It seems that you have homed in on the solenoid, and that is a very real possibility. If the starter was bad(high load) then the voltage drop would be on both sides of the solenoid, but if you are still showing 14 volts under load at the stud that the cable attaches to on the solenoid, then it is probably not the starter. I hope for your wallets sake that it is only a bad solenoid, since they are much cheaper than a new starter. In the bad old days most solenoids could be opened up and the contacts cleaned and/or degreased, but I suspect that the modern ones are toss and replace types. Keep us posted! This has been an interesting thread.____Grant.
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Old 07-02-2013, 09:00   #79
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Re: Need some help from the diesel gurus

If the engine doesn't look quite like an M18 then it's probably a 5416, the previous generation based on a slightly different Kubota block. If you could post a picture of the front of the engine (water pump end) I could be sure.
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Old 07-02-2013, 10:42   #80
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Re: Need some help from the diesel gurus

Everything so far points at an electrical issue. The soleniod is looking more likely for the culprit, I would pull it and the starter and take them in to a shop for a test and either elimnate them as the bad guys or pronounce them sound. It is not a bad idea to have your starter rebuilt as a matter of course, it can help eliminate it as a problem source in the future and they are much easier to pull when on the hard than bobbing around in the slip.
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Old 07-02-2013, 11:05   #81
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Re: Need Some Help from the Diesel Gurus

I have a two cylinder Universal M-18. The glow plugs have to turn red (not just hot) for that engine to start. Hot to touch was not hot enough. NAPA sells them for under $9 each. When the glow plugs failed, the only way it would start was starting fluid (I know, but was desperate). WD 40 and silicon spray had no effect and neither did using the compression release. New glow plugs and it fired right up after holding the button 20 seconds, and not a problem since. Hope this helps. Great little engines. BTW, those engines have a history of corrosion at the connectors in the wiring harness. Looks like a trailer to car brake light connector and there are two of them between the engine and the panel. Lots of info on this at catalinaowners.com.
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Old 07-02-2013, 14:49   #82
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Re: Need Some Help from the Diesel Gurus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve W View Post
I have a two cylinder Universal M-18. The glow plugs have to turn red (not just hot) for that engine to start. Hot to touch was not hot enough. NAPA sells them for under $9 each. When the glow plugs failed, the only way it would start was starting fluid (I know, but was desperate). WD 40 and silicon spray had no effect and neither did using the compression release. New glow plugs and it fired right up after holding the button 20 seconds, and not a problem since. Hope this helps. Great little engines. BTW, those engines have a history of corrosion at the connectors in the wiring harness. Looks like a trailer to car brake light connector and there are two of them between the engine and the panel. Lots of info on this at catalinaowners.com.
Hmmm... that would mean that you wouldn't be able to start with the hand crank in the misfortunate event of dead batts.
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Old 07-02-2013, 14:57   #83
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Re: Need Some Help from the Diesel Gurus

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Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster View Post
Hmmm... that would mean that you wouldn't be able to start with the hand crank in the misfortunate event of dead batts.
Which is less of a problem than you would think, as there is no hand crank. There is also the matter of the electric fuel lift pump.
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Old 07-02-2013, 15:28   #84
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Re: Need Some Help from the Diesel Gurus

Put a voltmeter across the positive and negative post on the battery. If voltage drops several volts, battery is discharged or defective. Before you pull the starter, crank for a few minutes and then put your hand on the various terminals from the battery posts through solenoid and any place a cable is connected checking for warm terminals. Clean where warm or hot. If the cable itself is hot, shorted starter.
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Old 07-02-2013, 16:51   #85
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Re: Need Some Help from the Diesel Gurus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve W View Post
I have a two cylinder Universal M-18. The glow plugs have to turn red (not just hot) for that engine to start. Hot to touch was not hot enough. NAPA sells them for under $9 each. When the glow plugs failed, the only way it would start was starting fluid (I know, but was desperate). WD 40 and silicon spray had no effect and neither did using the compression release. New glow plugs and it fired right up after holding the button 20 seconds, and not a problem since. Hope this helps. Great little engines. BTW, those engines have a history of corrosion at the connectors in the wiring harness. Looks like a trailer to car brake light connector and there are two of them between the engine and the panel. Lots of info on this at catalinaowners.com.
If that is the same little Universal used in Catalina 30's.... never had to worry about the glow plugs up here in the PNW. they started right up. I used to manage/do checkouts and returns for a fleet of them in charter. you need the glow plugs in Florda?
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Old 08-02-2013, 06:02   #86
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Re: Need Some Help from the Diesel Gurus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
If that is the same little Universal used in Catalina 30's.... never had to worry about the glow plugs up here in the PNW. they started right up. I used to manage/do checkouts and returns for a fleet of them in charter. you need the glow plugs in Florda?
Cheech...

Methinks Steve has a very tired but serviceable engine...
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Old 08-02-2013, 06:19   #87
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Re: Need Some Help from the Diesel Gurus

Cheechako, I think the 80's Catalina 30's mostly used a 3 cylinder Universal and I have no idea if they can start cold without energizing the glow plugs. Some did have the M-11 & M-16. The M-18 I have owned for 14vyears and has about 1400 hours on it, will absolutely not start without using the glow plugs, even in 90 degree weather. It will start without using them if the engine has been previously started, like after a 2 hour sail. It still runs perfectly, doesn't smoke, use any oil between changes and starts instantly when using the glow plugs. MarkSF is right, the M18 does not have a hand crank and no provision for one. I'm really interested to see what finally solves the OP's no-start problem.
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Old 08-02-2013, 06:44   #88
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Re: Need Some Help from the Diesel Gurus

"Universal Diesel Wiring Harness Upgrade " .I,beleive you have an Universal diesel built in the early 90's.These engins have a defective wiring hanrness.This defect can cause all the sympton'syou dscribe.Iknow I,installed one in 1992 had the same symptons.Here is an article from Compass marine describing the symptons and how to fix Don't pull the starter yet.If the link doesn't open go to Compass Marine on the Web you will find the link.
Good Luck
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Old 08-02-2013, 09:44   #89
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Re: Need Some Help from the Diesel Gurus

By the way, if the engine has a heat exchanger, have you closed the through hull for the engine cooling as the water lift muffler is probably full of water by now and could backup into the engine.
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Old 08-02-2013, 23:50   #90
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Re: Need Some Help from the Diesel Gurus

couple of things - havent seen any mention of a compression test - apologies if i missed it, i mainly read the ops posts only. If the compression isnt up to scratch you can forget all the ancillaries. I'm assuming the engine has never run for the op.

A little parable based on personal experience - starter motor dragging, flat batt. suspected but tested fine, tried a wiggle of the main ht lead to starter mtr, felt solid. After quite a bit of swearing and other creativity i for some reason went to remove the main ht lead to starter - it was very loose but had sort of welded itself to the stud so to a superficial wiggle it felt solid - #%^&!!!!. Tightened it up and the starter took off like a rocket.

look on the bright side - if you ever get this thing running you'll know every inch of it.
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