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Old 25-08-2015, 14:15   #31
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Re: My prop fell off... f.ck f.ck f.ck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fryewe View Post
Why did the prop fall off?

Positive attachment is often done by preventing the shaft nut from backing off by

-double nutting it (use of a second "jam" nut,) or
-use of a cotter pin through a hole in the shaft nut and shaft.

If the prop nut isn't retained in one of these or a similar manner, it will fall off again.

Fix it right, or take a chance on losing the prop.
^^^^Quite so!

Hoppy, since you are able to hitch hike to the big smoke, you are likely to be able to find the Woodruff key stock. Therefore, I like A64pilot's suggestions best. He's a bush mechanic for helicopters. Put the prop in your backpack and take it with you and fit it properly. You're going to have to do that anyway. Your anchor is well set now. If you're worried about staying put, use the dinghy to set out a spare anchor in a "V", and lie to both of them.

Something else failed, however, either an extra nut or a cotter pin, or else it couldn't have fallen off, so you may not have recovered everything. Somehow, you need to determine if you need an extra nut or a split pin, and if you don't have spares, you'll have to try and locate that, too, while you're in Athens.

I know you don't feel lucky right now, but I think you are, too. Plus, you have the CF support. It could be worse. Maybe a CF'er there in Greece will come share your anchorage and keep an eye on your boat while you are off it. Anyhow, today's misfortune is tomorrow's adventure: you're in the middle of one. Good 'cess to you.

Ann
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Old 25-08-2015, 14:28   #32
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Re: My prop fell off... f.ck f.ck f.ck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoppy View Post
Are the pins a standard size per prop shaft diameter?
Unfortunately, no.
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Old 25-08-2015, 14:29   #33
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Re: My prop fell off... f.ck f.ck f.ck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoppy View Post
No idea why at the moment.

The anode is still on the prop, so I assume that the nut is still there inside. I haven't had the energy to look at it, feeling a bit stressed and happy to still have the original prop.

Does not look to be any pins or anything adding extra security
The set screw is Part #5 in the drawing and is installed into the fat part of the hub just forward of the blades perpendicular to the shaft. Check to see if it is still there.

One thought is did you check the shaft to notice if the key is missing? Sometimes they can be given a tight fit. There is a very slim chance the key is still on the shaft.

How long ago was the prop installed anyway? Recently?
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Old 25-08-2015, 14:33   #34
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Re: My prop fell off... f.ck f.ck f.ck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
^^^^Quite so!

Hoppy, since you are able to hitch hike to the big smoke, you are likely to be able to find the Woodruff key stock. Therefore, I like A64pilot's suggestions best. He's a bush mechanic for helicopters. Put the prop in your backpack and take it with you and fit it properly. You're going to have to do that anyway. Your anchor is well set now. If you're worried about staying put, use the dinghy to set out a spare anchor in a "V", and lie to both of them.

Something else failed, however, either an extra nut or a cotter pin, or else it couldn't have fallen off, so you may not have recovered everything. Somehow, you need to determine if you need an extra nut or a split pin, and if you don't have spares, you'll have to try and locate that, too, while you're in Athens.

I know you don't feel lucky right now, but I think you are, too. Plus, you have the CF support. It could be worse. Maybe a CF'er there in Greece will come share your anchorage and keep an eye on your boat while you are off it. Anyhow, today's misfortune is tomorrow's adventure: you're in the middle of one. Good 'cess to you.

Ann
When I get to the marina by boat, I'll look more into the Flexofold problem, for now i will concentrate on getting the key for the original fixed prop. It's in a bag
ready for a dinghy/taxi ride.

I certainly feel lucky I went for a swim this evening. It would not have been a nice thing to raise the anchor and find I have no propulsion. Not sure how long it would take me to wake up that I need to drop the anchor again.
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Old 25-08-2015, 14:38   #35
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Re: My prop fell off... f.ck f.ck f.ck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delancey View Post
The set screw is Part #5 in the drawing and is installed into the fat part of the hub just forward of the blades perpendicular to the shaft. Check to see if it is still there.

One thought is did you check the shaft to notice if the key is missing? Sometimes they can be given a tight fit. There is a very slim chance the key is still on the shaft.

How long ago was the prop installed anyway? Recently?
About 5 years ago.

I'm just now trying to remember if there was any work done over one of the winters that might have required the prop's removal.... I have a vague recollection something was done, but I cant really be sure.

I saw that there was no key.
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Old 25-08-2015, 14:41   #36
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Re: My prop fell off... f.ck f.ck f.ck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoppy View Post
When I get to the marina by boat, I'll look more into the Flexofold problem, for now i will concentrate on getting the key for the original fixed prop. It's in a bag
ready for a dinghy/taxi ride.

I certainly feel lucky I went for a swim this evening. It would not have been a nice thing to raise the anchor and find I have no propulsion. Not sure how long it would take me to wake up that I need to drop the anchor again.
Hoppy,

The Woodruff key absorbs the torque. The nut is supposed to hold the prop on the shaft. You need to figure out if the shaft sheared, the threads sheared, or what happened. Do go have a look before you start trying to get underway.

Please.

Ann
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Old 25-08-2015, 14:43   #37
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Re: My prop fell off... f.ck f.ck f.ck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delancey View Post
The Flex-O-Fold design uses a set screw to lock the shaft nut in place. As Training Wheels mentioned earlier this set screw is delivered from the factory with a special locking compound that works underwater.

I would be very interested to know how the prop fell off in the first place. Whether is was installed in or out of the water, whether the factory supplied set screw was used or resused, etc.
Blue loctite is your friend.

If the prop had been removed for any reason, that set screw would have been removed, and would have needed new loctite to ensure it didn't loosen with vibration after reinstallation.

hoppy, if you install your other prop (not your flex-o-fold), the assembly will need positive locking to assure the nut doesn't back off.
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Old 25-08-2015, 15:32   #38
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Re: My prop fell off... f.ck f.ck f.ck.

I know it may not seem like it but it could be worse. I knew a fellow with a Morgan 30 where his entire prop shaft fell off. He was in the ICW put the engine in reverse and kerplunk. He got to put on a mask a dive in the night to put a plug in the shaft log.

You've got a lot of supportive friends here. It's been a real inconvenience but thankfully not a disaster.

Remember cruising = getting to fix your boat in exotic places.

Glad you and the boat are safe.

Rich


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Old 25-08-2015, 15:39   #39
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Re: My prop fell off... f.ck f.ck f.ck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Hoppy,

The Woodruff key absorbs the torque. The nut is supposed to hold the prop on the shaft.
Ann
That is not a woodruff key. A woodruff key is semi circular. On a tapered shaft, it the key is absorbing torque, the nuts are loose.
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Old 25-08-2015, 15:56   #40
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Re: My prop fell off... f.ck f.ck f.ck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy View Post
That is not a woodruff key. A woodruff key is semi circular. On a tapered shaft, it the key is absorbing torque, the nuts are loose.
Guy, thanks for the correction. What do you call that key?

Hoppy, you still need to check to be sure the shaft itself is all there and the threads okay.

Good luck with it.

Ann
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Old 25-08-2015, 16:06   #41
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Re: My prop fell off... f.ck f.ck f.ck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
As I understand it squeezing the prop against the tapered shaft is the mechanism that prevents the prop slipping. The key is (mostly) a back up.

Thus the key is not critical. Aluminium is easy to cut with hand tools. Can you cut a suitable key from a scrap piece of aluminium. If it was slightly undersized I don't think this would cause a problem short term.

You could put on your old prop with a tempory key and it should work fine.

If you do this keep the revs low.
The taper is intended to carry the load.

The role of the key is remove any play and maintain the preload from the axial load of the clamp nut. Woodruff key material deforms.

In your situation an aluminum tapered spike will work. Alum welding wire will also work. I've even seen nails used for temp repairs.

Just hammer it in the keyway and it will deform nicely. It wont damage the shaft or the prop. Then break it off.

Then install the propnut, tighten and lock. The nut will compress the alum spike into a neat fitting key.

It will also be easy to remove.

You might have some wear on the taper. The hammered in soft key will deal with that until you get to make a permanent repair.

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Old 25-08-2015, 16:20   #42
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Re: My prop fell off... f.ck f.ck f.ck.

Straight key...
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Old 25-08-2015, 16:50   #43
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Re: My prop fell off... f.ck f.ck f.ck.

Straight key is not a woodruff key which is flat on one side and a semicircle on the other side. In the US my experience with shafts and props use a "straight" key. I would see if any neighbor boats have key stock. I care several "keys" with me. You might get lucky
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Old 25-08-2015, 17:01   #44
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Re: My prop fell off... f.ck f.ck f.ck.

All this talk of keys reminds me of having a plain steel Woodruff key in my salt water pump. Steel keys don't last very long in salt water, nor would brass I suppose.
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Old 25-08-2015, 17:15   #45
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Re: My prop fell off... f.ck f.ck f.ck.

Did you check the inside of your prop hub? Key could be stuck in the flexofold groove. Yes, probably obvious and first thing you did but as you said this is stressful.ll


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