Marinized Engine With Which Transmission ?????

[Nadejda]

I would probably go with the 3-53 if I had my druthers; 3 cylinder engines are alway much smoother that 2 or 4 cylinder engines. I know what you mean about not needing the power, but my 6-71 that I believe is rated at 170 hp is only putting out >25 hp when cruising at 6 knots. It doesn't seem to bother the Detroit to put out a small percentage of total hp as long as they are at around 1800 rpm (at least on my 6-71)

Yes they do put out more noise than many modern engines and a lot of that has to do with them being two strokes. I think with a properly designed installation that can be minimized. My 6-71 is hard mounted to the hull of my steel boat and there is surprisingly little vibration. The other thing about the Detroits is that their exhaust is a bit different than the norm.

Here are some web sites:

Diesel Engine Specs

Detroit Diesel 3 53 engine specs at Barrington Diesel Club

[rebel heart]

Buy a yanmar.

[speedoo]

Originally Posted by Nadejda

I would probably go with the 3-53 if I had my druthers; 3 cylinder engines are alway much smoother that 2 or 4 cylinder engines. I know what you mean about not needing the power, but my 6-71 that I believe is rated at 170 hp is only putting out >25 hp when cruising at 6 knots. It doesn't seem to bother the Detroit to put out a small percentage of total hp as long as they are at around 1800 rpm (at least on my 6-71)

Yes they do put out more noise than many modern engines and a lot of that has to do with them being two strokes. I think with a properly designed installation that can be minimized. My 6-71 is hard mounted to the hull of my steel boat and there is surprisingly little vibration. The other thing about the Detroits is that their exhaust is a bit different than the norm.

Here are some web sites:

Diesel Engine Specs

Detroit Diesel 3 53 engine specs at Barrington Diesel Club

Thanks, this is good stuff. I need some help with the fuel consumption data for the 3-53.... if I run it at say 30 hp, can I get the fuel consumption below a gal/hr do you think?

Still looking for info on where the dip stick, filters, etc are.

On edit, looks like the dip stick is on the port side, wrong side for me, unless it's short enough that I can step around it. Still don't know about the filters.

[speedoo]

Originally Posted by rebel heart

Buy a yanmar.

Sure, yanmar is a good choice, but maybe not the best choice for me. Would you care to lay out pros and cons vs. a Detroit Diesel?

[Nadejda]

The Detroits are usually ambidextrous; you can mount things on either side. You can also get them with the blower on either side which means the dip stick can be on either side. You can also easily remote mount the oil and fuel filters; mine both are.

Burning a gallon an hour while producing 30hp is an impossible request. The Detroits tend to produce about 15-16 hp/gal/hr so at 30 hp they will burn about 2 gal/hr. More modern engines; say a Yanmar will produce 17-18 hp/gal/hr (maybe slightly higher with electronics); so even with the newer engines it is still not possible to get the 1gal/hr burn you are looking for.

The best thing you can do for efficiency is getting competent people to spec out the drive; i.e. transmission ratio, prop pitch and diameter. Coupling the most efficient engine to a poorly designed drive will still result in poor fuel efficiency.

My grandfather converted a couple of 26' Navy Whale Boats to little cabin cruisers. He powered them is a 7 and 8 hp Yanmar single cylinder engine. The first one he put 350gal of internal tankage in and motored it to Pitcairn Island from San Diego. The second he used on the inside passage. He was able to get 18 nautical miles/gal with a major gear reduction and large diameter prop. But that was a light boat too.

[goboatingnow]

I would stay away from self marinised engines, unless it's a complete kit and tailored to the engine.

Most marine engines today are car or truck engines, the older "industrial" engines are becoming obsolete due to environmental and running cost issues. For example the bigger yanmars use Nissan patrol blocks, Volvo uses a range of truck engines as does Isuzu etc.

All diesel engines contain governors to smooth power delivery, you couldn't drive a car without it. There is in reality no difference between industrial engines and transport engines, the term is a marketing term. Perkins engines got used in a huge variety of " industrial" and transport applications as did the majority of long lived engine blocks.

The modern trend towards faster lighter diesels has not made them more unreliable, but has increased the need to service them properly and they do not tolerate neglect like older engines. Look after them and they'll see the boat out.

For small engines, the kubota blocks have a good reputation, such as beta, yanmar, nanni, etc though some are aluminium heads and that can lead to trouble in overheats.

Small well known car diesels where dedicated marinising components are availsble are quite a do-able project for the knowledgable budding engine mechanic. For the unsure or amateur they are a receipe for disaster. See Lancing Marines web site in the UK for more ideas.

I love the bigger Detroit diesels, there nothing like that 2 stroke exhaust noise, just like those yummy locomotive sounds. ( being a big EMD fan)

Dave

[S/V Antares]

Detroit? Why use an outdated no longet available heavy leaker on a little 36 footer.

If you must work out of the junk yard look for a fork lift. Many use kabota, mitsubishi, Isuzu etc. Small Japanese diesels. If you are handy you can use the hyd. motor as the trans. Camper Nicholsen did this in the 70's.

Better yet buy a nice Beta that is ready to go.

[rebel heart]

Originally Posted by speedoo

Sure, yanmar is a good choice, but maybe not the best choice for me. Would you care to lay out pros and cons vs. a Detroit Diesel?

Small, powerful, easy to maintain, built very well. Notoriously reliable and inexpensive to operate. They've been building diesel engines for boats for a really long time.

Having a yanmar is riding a honda motorcycle. They just work really damn well.

[Florida Mike]

FYI, the Detroit 271, 353 and 453 have dealt driven water pumps. I don’t remember but I believe the 6V53 and 8V53 are also belt driven. I have found that you have more trouble with the accessory items on an engine then the engine itself. Rusted out oil plans seem to be a big problem. Most automotive and industrial engines have stamped metal foil pans. Just my two cents, Mike.

[Nadejda]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

All diesel engines contain governors to smooth power delivery, you couldn't drive a car without it. There is in reality no difference between industrial engines and transport engines, the term is a marketing term. Perkins engines got used in a huge variety of " industrial" and transport applications as did the majority of long lived engine blocks.

While you statement is factually correct; in application they are far from the same. I have owned and driven many diesel powered cars and they do not have a "governed" injection pump like and industrial engine. They are set up to feel like a gasoline engine; and for good reason. A diesel with a governor will hold it RPM as long as it can with a given throttle setting. Automobile diesels will not; they will slow down and speed up as the load changes; this by definition is not a governed engine. Trucks on the other hand do have governed injection pumps.

[Nadejda]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The modern trend towards faster lighter diesels has not made them more unreliable, but has increased the need to service them properly and they do not tolerate neglect like older engines. Look after them and they'll see the boat out.

I could be wrong here so someone correct me if I am. From what I have seen people start getting nervous when they see one of these newer engines with 3-5k hrs on them. While I know some have given good service beyond that most are needing rebuild. Like I said let me know if I am off on this.

While they give reliable service for their 3-5k hr life span compared to a Detroit that is a very short life. Most Detroits are just getting broken in by that hour count and give a service in excess of 20k hours. So I guess my point was not so much reliability but longevity. My boats 6-71 has been in service for 43 years and is still running strong; I just don't think you can say that about a Yanmar.

For the record; I only brought up older Volvos, Sabbs, and Detroits to show that there were options to the buying a new engine. I was in no means belittling the newer engines as I believe they are good engine; just that there are options if one so chooses.

[S/V Antares]

The difference? Weight. A big one. We are talking about a 36 ft sailboat? Correct.

Second. Detroits are no longer in production. A 4-53 is the size of two steamer trunks.

"Little" diesels are light, I have easily gotten over 10-15 k hours on yanmars and kabotas, mitsubushi.
Comparing a 6-71 to a small light diesel is not reality. I have a Lister single I work on from the 50's. Runs great bt weighs 3,000 pounds.
2,3,4cyl, 6, 6v 8v ,53,71,series or other detroits need plenty of service. Just like any diesel. They are loud, inefficient and blow oil out everywhere. The PTO's leak, The rings fail after 10k hrs or earlier. Ring land problems. They are not so great as they are cheap. Cheap brand x parts are available. ,

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Nadejda

I could be wrong here so someone correct me if I am. From what I have seen people start getting nervous when they see one of these newer engines with 3-5k hrs on them. While I know some have given good service beyond that most are needing rebuild. Like I said let me know if I am off on this.

While they give reliable service for their 3-5k hr life span compared to a Detroit that is a very short life. Most Detroits are just getting broken in by that hour count and give a service in excess of 20k hours. So I guess my point was not so much reliability but longevity. My boats 6-71 has been in service for 43 years and is still running strong; I just don't think you can say that about a Yanmar.

For the record; I only brought up older Volvos, Sabbs, and Detroits to show that there were options to the buying a new engine. I was in no means belittling the newer engines as I believe they are good engine; just that there are options if one so chooses.

No really, most " people" haven't a clue about engines anyway and tend to rely on hearsay or rumours. There's no problem getting 5 to 10 k hours out of modern engines. But you must follow maintenance schedules including major ones. Truck operators can regularly get 500k miles oh of engines and much more.

Old doesn't mean good.

[wolfenzee]

The engine on my boat is a Vetus M415, it is a marinized 0.415lt 33hp Mitsubishi tractor engine,the tractor engine was designed for a harsh environment,it is a reliable,quiet and efficient engine. To make it a marine engine, they put on a deeper oil pan. moved the filters and pumps to the front and added a heat exchanger.

[shakey doug]

uuuuummmmm. What is the defination of a diesel running without a govenor??????