Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 06-09-2016, 09:38   #16
Registered User
 
OS2Dude's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Atlanta, GA
Boat: Catalina 30
Posts: 144
Images: 5
Re: M 25 dying when warm

Quote:
Originally Posted by tchiffriller View Post
...she will crank and crank and doesn't want to start, but if I wait an hour and hit it with some starter fluid it will start back up

The OP's statement that he used Starting Fluid to get the diesel cranked threw me. I thought using gas or starting fluid was a BAD thing for a diesel. Our current vessel is the first boat I've had with a diesel (Also an M-25) so I'd like to make sure I have this straight.
__________________

__________________
OS2Dude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2016, 10:49   #17
Registered User
 
deblen's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Grand Manan,N.B.,Canada N44.40 W66.50
Boat: Mascot 28 pilothouse motorsailer 28ft
Posts: 1,254
Images: 1
Re: M 25 dying when warm

Some additional inf on these Shibaura based Perkins & Vovo Penta engines:

Perkins M20 - Removed head and this lovely sight presented me!


Better svc manual http://www.bluemoment.com/manuals/Vo...0-20-30-40.pdf

http://www.foleyengines.com/sites/de....Reduced_0.pdf

__________________

__________________
My personal experience & humble opinions-feel free to ignore both
deblen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2016, 11:28   #18
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 15,527
Re: M 25 dying when warm

Quote:
Originally Posted by OS2Dude View Post
The OP's statement that he used Starting Fluid to get the diesel cranked threw me. I thought using gas or starting fluid was a BAD thing for a diesel. Our current vessel is the first boat I've had with a diesel (Also an M-25) so I'd like to make sure I have this straight.
I see that a lot on here and starting fluid if used correctly is no big deal, UNLESS you have glow plugs, do not, ever use starting fluid with glow plugs, reason is the Ether is so volatile it will ignite when it hits the plug, regardless of where the piston is in it's stroke, I have see heads busted this way.
Procedure I use to safely use starting fluid is disable glow plugs if present, then after engine is turning over, give it a little shot into the intake, it may take additional short shots to keep her running for the first few seconds.
Now I have only had to use fluid in farm and Construction equipment and Military Diesels in cold weather, colder than I will ever be sailing, so take that into consideration.
__________________
a64pilot is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2016, 12:16   #19
Registered User
 
OS2Dude's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Atlanta, GA
Boat: Catalina 30
Posts: 144
Images: 5
Re: M 25 dying when warm

The Universal M-25 does have Glow Plugs. How do you disable them and how do you get it started without them? I've tried cranking ours without warming the glow-plugs and it has never started that way for me.
__________________
OS2Dude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2016, 14:49   #20
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 15,527
Re: M 25 dying when warm

Disconnect the wire or pull the fuse if it has one.
But I have only used Ether when it was below freezing, most International farm tractors came from the factory with an ether injection system for starting, you hung a can in the holder and there was a button and a solenoid that would let ether shoot into the intake manifold.
Ether if used properly is not dangerous, but like most things it can be mis-used.
Diesels that require glow plugs usually are relatively low compression and have a pre-combustion chamber, and therefore need pre-heat, use of ether in a Modern Diesel is a I have to go, staying will endanger us kind of thing, and if used correctly will not harm your engine.
Best to try other methods first if possible, like a heat gun directly into the intake manifold, let it get things hot, of course requires copious amounts of AC power.


Sent from my iPad Pro using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
a64pilot is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2016, 15:32   #21
Registered User
 
deblen's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Grand Manan,N.B.,Canada N44.40 W66.50
Boat: Mascot 28 pilothouse motorsailer 28ft
Posts: 1,254
Images: 1
Re: M 25 dying when warm

Need for ether is a good sign of low compression-either by design or by a fault.
The diesel fuel must be raised to ignition temperature by compression ratio of at least 15-16:1
There are diesels out there that were designed for 16-17:1. I have one.
It has no glow plugs nor pre-heater. (Volvo Penta 2003-but there are others)
It will not start properly if there is any compression leakage.

I suspect low compression after warm up can be caused by no clearance in valve adjustment. When cold.pushrods,rockers & cam lobes shrink just enough to let valves close. However,if there is no valve clearance,as soon as metal warms it expands,holding valves open a bit. This would cause low compression,poor power,poor running & hard starting...& eventually burnt valves.

Adjusting valves is no big deal.
You don't have to go thru the normal "finding TDC" either.
Put a wrench on the crank pulley.
Roll engine slowly til a particular cyl. has both rockers fully loose.
Adjust the valve clearance for that cyl.
Repeat with other cyls -one at a time

Must always be done after ANY head removal.

Youtube or Google-valve adj. most any engines same principle.

Best of luck/ Len
__________________
My personal experience & humble opinions-feel free to ignore both
deblen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2016, 16:52   #22
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 15,527
M 25 dying when warm

You really should find TDC, especially if your new to this.
One way usually is to pull the injectors and I use a bamboo shiskabob stick as it won't hurt anything, use it to touch the piston and crank around til it is TDC, of course this only works on a direct injection Diesel and you need TDC compression, TDC exhaust of course won't work.
Do not allow the stick to be pinned and broken though, a soda straw works well and can't be broken too.
You should though have marks on your crank pulley that will determine TDC and a procedure to adjust valves in the book. I have a Balmar serpentine belt kit that covers my crank pulley, I really should make the mark myself I guess, but the straw method works and with the injectors out its a lot easier to turn over.


Sent from my iPad Pro using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
a64pilot is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2016, 19:09   #23
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 524
Re: M 25 dying when warm

You know, sometimes it just pays to let an expert look at it. I bought a truck engine, 5.9 Cummins, and had a local diesel shop look it over and start it up. They said everything looked and sounded fine. About $200.00 bucks. Easy. Bolt it in.
__________________
captlloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2016, 05:17   #24
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Queensland, Australia
Boat: Piver Loadstar 12.5 metres
Posts: 320
Re: M 25 dying when warm

I had a similar problem with an engine that had an oil-recirculation system that operated by collecting the oil fumes in a mesh filter using the rings blow-by. Instead of the oil dripping back into the i=engine valve train and oil galleries in the head--it went with the blow-by out and directly into the inlet manifold with lots of white smoke and no power.

I eventually took apart the oil-recovery screens and found them clogged with deposits. Cleaned them and engine ran well afterwards. If the screens are damaged--replace them with a mesh box packed with clean (no soap) stainless steel soft scouring pads. Works great and costs only a dollar or two.
__________________
Mike Banks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2016, 05:21   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Queensland, Australia
Boat: Piver Loadstar 12.5 metres
Posts: 320
Re: M 25 dying when warm

If you are using a pre-heat method, then a length of wire with some string would around the end and soaked in methylated spirit works in a pinch. Light the string, then spin the engine and put the flame into the inlet manifold. Usually starts immediately.
__________________
Mike Banks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2016, 06:00   #26
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 40
Re: M 25 dying when warm

How did you clean out the screens?
__________________
tchiffriller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2016, 01:28   #27
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Queensland, Australia
Boat: Piver Loadstar 12.5 metres
Posts: 320
Re: M 25 dying when warm

I sprayed them when disassembled with brake cleaner (trichlorpethane) and got into them with a bronze brush.
__________________
Mike Banks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2016, 11:19   #28
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 40
Re: M 25 dying when warm

Adjusted the valves and no change cylinder one is not firing, next step is to do a compression test I guess any other ideas
__________________

__________________
tchiffriller is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is My Victron Multi Dying ? Dreaming Yachtsman Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 125 18-01-2013 08:06
Is the Cruising Lifestyle Dying ? Dudeman General Sailing Forum 164 11-01-2013 06:32
No Boat Is Worth Dying for ! dirkdig General Sailing Forum 23 26-01-2011 16:30
Batteries are Dying. So this has to be quick! ssullivan General Sailing Forum 8 26-02-2008 04:42
Starter Worked 6(!!) Times Before Dying - AGAIN! ssullivan Engines and Propulsion Systems 26 08-04-2007 04:56


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 13:45.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.