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Old 27-05-2016, 16:36   #1
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Leak on the injection pump

On the bolts where pipes for injectors are connected i may see drops of fluid.

I did change two washers on one pipe but after 5 min it did begun to leak again.
And also now an other connection is leaking.

I did elevate the engine from engine mounts to change the oil gasket on oil pan. I was hard when i was putting engine down on mounts again. Is it possible that i did make some damage on mounts and now i have to much vibrations?
I was comparing vibrations by holding mounts with fingers to see if there i can notice some difference between them. But no difference.
I am in Gutemala now. So all is more difficult. How can i find out where is the problem?

Is it possible that there is something that i am missing?
And here is the video abot the problem.
Complications #27B sz2 | Free On Blue Water

I can get new washer kit for little more than 50$, and i will change them for sure, but can i use them more times? If i change only washers and then i find out that engine mounts are the problem. Can i use then the same washers again or i will have to buy another kit?
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Old 27-05-2016, 18:37   #2
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Re: Leak on the injection pump

If the gasket is solid copper you can re use it several times if you carefully anneal it. This will make the copper soft again and the fitting will be able to seal once again
You should be able to borrow a small propane torch to do the deed. The gasket only needs to get dull red.
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Old 27-05-2016, 20:47   #3
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Re: Leak on the injection pump

I'm sorry you're having a bad day. It sounds like you're describing two separate problems - one how to stop a fuel line leak and two whether or not you have damaged your engine mounts resulting in vibration. Guy is correct on the washers if they are indeed copper - I used to re-aneal copper gaskets on the spark plugs of my airplane - just heat to dull red and let cool slowly. If the gasket is cupped or gouged, use fine sand paper on a flat surface and make it flat again. That does look like a copper gasket in the video. But that leak shouldn't be due to engine vibration since the fuel line is very securely fastened to the rest of the engine that is shaking.

I've watched your video, and the engine appears to be vibrating far more than it should, but is that due to broken engine mounts? Two sources of vibration to consider. One, the engine is not rotating smoothly, the most likely source being not firing on all cylinders, which possibly could be related to the drip but could be due to lots of other reasons, such as a clogged injector. The other is the drive train. Does the engine vibrate when in neutral, or only when the prop shaft is turning? If the former, OK we look at the engine. If the latter, then you can suspect that your lifting the engine and lowering it again caused misalignment, which could be due to a damaged engine mount, but could be other sources. When you lowered the engine, did the prop shaft line up with the same gap all the way around the flange at the back of the transmission?

I don't want to speculate further until you can tell us whether the vibration occurs when the engine is in gear only or when it's in neutral. Hang in there. There are people who know bunches more about diesels than I do who read these threads.
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Old 28-05-2016, 07:37   #4
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Re: Leak on the injection pump

I am now doing all in neutral.
I did "fast" check of alignment yesterday and i do not have more than 0,005 of difference around flange. I did not want to make finer adjustments because i am running out of gear. And maybe i will have to take engine mounts down for inspection. To not spent time on something for nothing.

The washers are from steel. I was looking to get original (from steel) until now in one injection pump shop, because i was trying with copper but it did not work. The copper one which i could get did had bigger inner diameter- i was thinking that maybe that is the reason of actual leaking. And one mechanic did told me that washers have to be from steel,
because they have to support 200 bars of pressure. I did sound logic to me.

Until now we know only that transmission is not connected.

I have some ideas how to proceed, but i will wait to get instruction here. as you were saying. And thank you.
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Old 28-05-2016, 11:12   #5
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Re: Leak on the injection pump

Steel washers for a diesel engine? New to me; but what do i know. Copper allows compression so as to get a really good seal. Steel does not compress as far as i am aware of unless you are applying pressures well beyond ordinary engine practices. You are using copper to seal a steel injector, right?
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Old 28-05-2016, 11:19   #6
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Re: Leak on the injection pump

I just went through a problem with what I also thought was leaking from the banjo bolts. Turned out that after messing around with them that the problem was with a gasket on one of the clam shells on the pump. I finally found out where it was actually coming from by spraying down everything in the vicinity with brake cleaner. It removes the paint which is also helpful in seeing where it was actually coming from. Took pieces of paper towel place in different locations to see where the leak was. My end result was that the pump needed a new paper gasket, but since it had over 4000 hours on it I opted to get it rebuilt. It was a PITA to remove the first time, but now I have all of the tools I need to take it off it is no big deal. If you do remove it, make sure to chisel a timing mark so that it can be put back exactly as you take it off so you don't add to your wowes.
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Old 28-05-2016, 11:22   #7
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Re: Leak on the injection pump

Another IP on another Perkins engine also has steel washers.
(see the picture in my first post and check the video in link to see which washers i am talking about)
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Old 28-05-2016, 11:40   #8
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Re: Leak on the injection pump

Dw1979

thank you

I am going to clean everything and check again..


Can you tel me what are
clam shells on the pump ?
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Old 28-05-2016, 13:30   #9
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Re: Leak on the injection pump

I did bought me cleaning spray. I did clean the the IP and washed with sweet water.
Tomorrow when it will be dry i will run the engine again. I hope to see better then.
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Old 28-05-2016, 16:44   #10
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Re: Leak on the injection pump

I'd take a good look at the pipe/banjo ..... I've got a locker full of those injector pipes! One of the weaker parts of that engine.
PS. not advisable to weld, shorten or whatever ..... all pipes should be exact same length & solder just won't cut the mustard.
Did your lifting rope or chain squish some of the pipes? Only one leaking?
Make 100% sure the banjo doesn't try to spin when nipping it up!
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Old 28-05-2016, 17:12   #11
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Re: Leak on the injection pump

Wow! Now there's a knowledgeable contribution. pr2501, be glad you've got someone o
like BruceS on your side.
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Old 29-05-2016, 08:25   #12
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Re: Leak on the injection pump

PR2501 I hope you are doing better today. After the cleaning you did, take a good look to see if you have any leaks showing before you start up the engine. The "clam shell" I referred to is the piece that is bolted to the bottom of the injection pump. I just called it that because it is sort of what it looks like. My leak turned out to be the gasket on that part and under pressure it was squirting out and going on to the banjo bolt area and making me think that was the problem.
After the good cleaning to make sure that there was no fuel on any of the surfaces, I was able to see the leak was in fact coming from the gasket. At that point I consulted the local diesel specialists and they recommended a rebuild which I did. My Perkins 4-108 had about 4000 hours on it and they said if it leaked in this location, another leak could happen due to age of the gaskets.
All that being said, I hope your leaks are just the banjo bolts because that will be a lot cheaper. If you do have to remove the unit for repair, make sure you mark the exact timing position with a mechanical mark (cold chisel) for alignment. Saves on the install end. If you are having problems removing the unit, I am now way too intimate with it,
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Old 29-05-2016, 10:35   #13
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Re: Leak on the injection pump

It looks more evident now that leak is coming from banjo bolts.

I will try tomorrow to get me new washers. I will go to bigger town so i might also get them from copper. And then i will see.

With new washers to make more tests i will maybe find out what is the real problem.
Thank you.
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Old 29-05-2016, 18:57   #14
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Re: Leak on the injection pump

I did find in the engine manual note that washers should be from aluminium.
(see attache d picture) I will ask the previous owner if he did also had problems with fuel leaking at the same place?
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Old 29-05-2016, 21:34   #15
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Re: Leak on the injection pump

Hello Pr2105. As BruceS suggested, the high pressure lines on these engines especially are prone to failure. They should last for the life of the engine, but If they are stressed by twisting while tightening they can develop leaks at the brazed joints, or the tube itself can split from stress or vibration over time. Also, note that the banjo fitting shells can be distorted by compression due to over tightening, leaving the sealing surfaces slightly cupped thereby reducing the sealing surface area. copper washers can work if sized closely enough to give adequate sealing area and not provide a gap due to excessive ID, Steel washers are used on some industrial/marine engines, but probably not a good idea on yours with that particular banjo design. Copper washers can be work hardened by over torquing and/or repeated reusing/retightening, and both aluminum and copper will be distorted by over tightening. I'm hoping that yours is a simple washer issue, and not a damaged line, although that fix is an easy one if you have access to the part. It's also remote but possible that the injector is leaking, requiring that the injector be disassembled and the retaining nut be resealed.
Good luck.
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