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Old 13-11-2014, 18:12   #106
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Re: It Begins: Converting Cal 2-27 to Electric Propulsion!

Been watching all the EP fourms for a while now and am always interested in what others are doing I went Electric about 2 years ago and have been working on the fine tuning this last summer ( reduction ratio prop dia & pitch and controller confg ) As of now I am pretty darn pleased with the set up like anything else that is DIY things need to be tweaked to suit the builder/user This is where I ended up and may change the prop again to add more pitch thinking maybe 16x18 4 blade just to see if it helps with efficiency

The system as it is now

Morgan 33 O/I
15000 lbs
12' beam
4' draft
full keel
Thunderstruck 10.5KW kit
8 US Battery J305 batteries (305ah@48vdc) 14.4kw
3:1 reduction
18x15 3 blade prop
E-Epert Pro battery monitor (set@ 20%=0)for 80%DOD
Blue Sea Amp meter
Quick Charge 48v x 25amp charger

speed draw test 20amps=3.1k time to 20% 12hr20min
25amps=3.7k
30amps=4.2k time to 20% 7hr 50min
40amps=4.5k
50amps=4.7k
60amps=4..9k
90amps=6.1k

My longest run so far is 26km with the tide on the nose and no wind @ 4.1kt average for 6.5 hours using 75%= 10.5kw of my available battery power so on a good day with the tide not beating me 40km should be doable
Everyone seems to have there own reason for why they want to go with EP for me I am a full time live aboard and this is my 3rd boat and I just like not having to deal with IC maintenance and fuel onboard there are plenty of thing that need to be taken care of with out fuel filters and waterpumps
That was the conclusion I came to when I admitted that I live on the boat 99% of the time and sail it 1% Hopefully that will change in a couple of years Also I forgot to mention its a great way to get rid of a munch of extra money so you don't waste it at the grocery store
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Old 13-11-2014, 19:09   #107
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Re: It Begins: Converting Cal 2-27 to Electric Propulsion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnigan View Post
Been watching all the EP fourms for a while now and am always interested in what others are doing I went Electric about 2 years ago and have been working on the fine tuning this last summer ( reduction ratio prop dia & pitch and controller confg ) As of now I am pretty darn pleased with the set up like anything else that is DIY things need to be tweaked to suit the builder/user This is where I ended up and may change the prop again to add more pitch thinking maybe 16x18 4 blade just to see if it helps with efficiency

The system as it is now

Morgan 33 O/I
15000 lbs
12' beam
4' draft
full keel
Thunderstruck 10.5KW kit
8 US Battery J305 batteries (305ah@48vdc) 14.4kw
3:1 reduction
18x15 3 blade prop
E-Epert Pro battery monitor (set@ 20%=0)for 80%DOD
Blue Sea Amp meter
Quick Charge 48v x 25amp charger

speed draw test 20amps=3.1k time to 20% 12hr20min
25amps=3.7k
30amps=4.2k time to 20% 7hr 50min
40amps=4.5k
50amps=4.7k
60amps=4..9k
90amps=6.1k

My longest run so far is 26km with the tide on the nose and no wind @ 4.1kt average for 6.5 hours using 75%= 10.5kw of my available battery power so on a good day with the tide not beating me 40km should be doable
Everyone seems to have there own reason for why they want to go with EP for me I am a full time live aboard and this is my 3rd boat and I just like not having to deal with IC maintenance and fuel onboard there are plenty of thing that need to be taken care of with out fuel filters and waterpumps
That was the conclusion I came to when I admitted that I live on the boat 99% of the time and sail it 1% Hopefully that will change in a couple of years Also I forgot to mention its a great way to get rid of a munch of extra money so you don't waste it at the grocery store
Wow your OI pushes easy! Your 50a speed is equal to mine, and my boat is only 7600 lb and 27 feet. Nice setup you have.

I see you discharge down to 20%. What kind of batteries are those? They look like regular lead acid flooded cells, and most users only take them down to 50% except in an emergency.
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Old 13-11-2014, 22:49   #108
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Re: It Begins: Converting Cal 2-27 to Electric Propulsion!

They are US Battery 305XC lead acid batteries the maker estimates 700 cycles to 80% or 10 years they are used in electric lifts and floor scrubbers and are resonably priced for there size The L16 420ah batteries needed a 40 amp charger so I went with the 310ah The thing that got the most bang so far was the 3:1 reduction and 18X15 prop I hardly ever use more than 30 or 40% during an outing its just nice to have it there if I need them The next project is a Honda gen set for chargeing when I cant get to shore power I have 660ah @ 12vdc with 250 watts of solar for the house
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Old 13-11-2014, 23:32   #109
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Re: It Begins: Converting Cal 2-27 to Electric Propulsion!

Thanks for the video, that motor is just as noisy as mine and the other videos.
I guess if your happy with it, but no way I would find that acceptable, when it is possible to have one that is dead quiet.
Boat moves well.

I'm actually building a high power charger right now.
It uses a microwave oven transformer (MOT) that has the 2000 volt secondary replaced with a winding that will generate 50amps of charging.
You can usually find dead or free microwaves no problem, just disassemble them to get the MOT and the caps.
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Old 14-11-2014, 05:42   #110
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Re: It Begins: Converting Cal 2-27 to Electric Propulsion!

[QU57.6 nimblemotors;1677428]Thanks for the video, that motor is just as noisy as mine and the other videos.
I guess if your happy with it, but no way I would find that acceptable, when it is possible to have one that is dead quiet.
Boat moves well.

I'm actually building a high power charger right now.
It uses a microwave oven transformer (MOT) that has the 2000 volt secondary replaced with a winding that will generate 50amps of charging.
You can usually find dead or free microwaves no problem, just disassemble them to get the MOT and the caps.[/QUOTE]

That sounds interesting. Is this just a single stage charger? Just transformer, rectifier, and caps? I would like some way to at least adjust the voltage. But I guess you could just tap the new secondary, huh? Might make a good equalizing charger to supplement a charger that doesn't have an equalizing mode.

For 50a out at 57.6v, that's about 25a on the primary at 120v. Have you done this before? Any links? Sounds like a cool project.
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Old 14-11-2014, 10:16   #111
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Re: It Begins: Converting Cal 2-27 to Electric Propulsion!

The typical Amp-hour rating for batteries is based on the 20 hour discharge rate. So for your 200 amp-hr battery that would be 10 amps, draw a higher current and you need to de-rate your battery amp-hr capacity. So you will be discharging your batteries to a deeper level than you are calculating if you are running at higher amp loads than 10 amps.

I believe that it doesn't matter what voltage you're running at, amp-hr capacity and current drawn remain the same for the calculator below.

The calculator in the link below with inputs of 50 amps and 2 hours gives a 388 amp-hr battery needed to discharge only down to 50%.

20 amps for 5 hours gives a 300 amp-hr battery.

http://www.batterystuff.com/kb/tools...to-a-load.html


Quote:
Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster View Post
Some test data. Lake Pontchartrain, calm day, breeze on the beam, average of both directions. Estimated range can be calculated from assuming 100ah drawn from the bank, divided by current to get run time, multiplied by speed to get nm. For instance at 1a I should be able to draw for 100 hours, giving 100nm range at the 1 amp setting. At 20 amps I should be able to run for 5 hours at 3.3kt giving a range of 16.5nm.

1a 1kt
2.5a 1.4kt
5a 1.9kt
10a 2.5kt
15a 2.9kt
20a 3.3kt
25a 3.6kt
30a 3.8kt
35a 4.1kt
40a 4.3kt
45a 4.5kt
50a 4.6kt
55a 4.7kt

Two things I really need to do. First, I underestimated the need for a quality high current charger. 15 amps is NOT enough for a 220ah bank. I need at least a 30a charger, preferably one that can deliver an equalizing charge, which is 62 volts for a 48v bank. The charger came with the Kelly controller and the voltages are too low and not adjustable. I probably should build a charger that I can configure to my needs and preferences but it is a daunting project.

Second, the control setup is awkward. I have an on/off switch, a fwd/n/rev switch, a recent pot, and a throttle pot. I don't intend to sail the boat any more so I can eliminate the regen. I want to have only the power on/off switch, and a single knob for throttle and reverse/neutral/fwd. Pointer straight up for neutral, to the left for reverse power, to the right for forward. Further for faster, less for slower. I will probably use an arduino for processing the signal from a 10k pot using the 5v control voltage from the controller, with the midpoint being converted to 0 throttle, 0v to full reverse, 5v to full forward. The single knob control will be more intuitive and easier/faster to operate.

Since I will have an arduino board in the control box, maybe it would be cool to also have a 2 line LCD display right on the control box, showing battery volts and state of charge percentage, amps into the controller, and prop RPM. What I got now is just an analog shunt ammeter and analog voltmeter jumpered in, laying loose on top of the battery box. Difficult to read and inconvenient. For now, I will mount them on a piece of acrylic, along with a digital hall effect tachometer that I haven't installed yet. I will mount that on a box of some sort so the connections aren't exposed. But a 2 line display presenting the data right there on the throttle box will be super.

I tried to get the configuration program for the Kelly controller to run on my laptop, running Linux, but no joy. In Wine the app tries to start but says it can't find the controller. I tried all sorts of things and I can't get it to go. That is one of the things that absolutely sucks about the Kelly controller. The tech guys want US to use the operating system that THEY use. They don't understand the American concept that the customer either gets it his way or gets it elsewhere. They are zero help on this, and other issues. They also label meters only in a percentage of configured current and voltage parameters, not volts and amps, and so the data from the supplied meters is ambiguous and basically useless. They defend this stupidity by claiming they would have to write a separate configuration for each size of controller. In fact they only need to change certain constants in a configuration file for each controller but they think they know it all and I am just some retard who doesn't understand that the vendor makes the rules and the customer shuts the hell up and takes what he is given. And they are mad at me for not ordering my motor through them.

Bottom line, if you use the Kelly controller, don't expect much useful technical assistance from them, make sure you have a windows or Mac computer, and don't waste your money on their kit. Buy controller, fuse, contactor, diodes and resistor, and heat sink, put it together yourself. I am waiting for Sevcon to get their act together and make a line of controllers that can be configured on a proper Linux or Android computer, without paying $200 for a special programmer doodad. That's pretty ignorant and stupid, as well.

I only get a max of about 60 amps or a bit less of current. I think it is hitting a speed limit in the controller. The original 12" 2 blade folding prop doesn't seem to be loading the motor enough to develop peak power. I will be replacing it with a fixed 3 blade next year. Possibly it would have been better to not use a reduction gear with this 4201 motor, which is meant to be ran slower than the similar 0907, but I didn't want to have to diddle around with a thrust bearing when I could just mount right up to a Baldor reduction gearbox. But the 3 blade prop ought to give me the full 5kw power from this motor and controller.

Another thing I want to re-think is the motor mount system. I will build a bed framework that does not need adjusting, and the motor faceplate will have separate adjustments for side to side, yaw, fore and aft, pitch, and height. Also I will make it slightly wider to accommodate the 10kw size Motenergy motors. The idea is for the design to be more or less universal for all boats originally equipped with Atomic 4 or Universal Diesel motors, using the Motenergy electric motors. Mounting the electric motor properly is probably the most intimidating part of a full DIY electric repower. This is why a full turnkey system or a professional installation is worth several thousand dollars more. Well, and the engineering. With an open source mount easily built with no welding out of cheap mild steel angle iron and 1/8" sheet, a DIY setup for 25 to 35 foot boats is a lot more feasible for a lot less technically inclined owners. The only machine shop type equipment needed would be a cheapo drill press from Harbor Freight, to drill accurate holes in 1/4" steel for 3/8" bolts. And a saber saw. No other power tools needed.

If there is enough interest, next year after I redo the mount and control box, I might make an Instructible tutorial on a generic setup for a small sailboat with a Motenergy or compatible motor. Maybe an open source kinda thing that can adapt to new technologies and sources as time goes by, with an eye toward keeping it cheap but also easy for regular folks to do.

To reiterate, I got my parts from:

Kelly, for controller kit including inadequate charger, useless meters, nice mounting plate, contactor, and fuse with KBL48301X 48v 300a peak, 100a continuous controller. I recommend thinking carefully about going with a Sevcon controller, though. Neither one is perfect. They don't care what we want.

Electricmotorsports for Motenergy 0201014201 BLDC 5kw motor. It was cheap so I got a spare, too. Later, after initially planning on direct drive, I also got a 2:1 Baldor enclosed gearbox from these guys.

Sams Club, for batteries. 8 GC2 6v golf cart batteries, for 48v and 220ah.

McMaster-Carr, for shaft, couplings, angle iron and sheet steel, and other bits and pieces.

Home Depot, for stainless bolts and hardware, and wood for my battery box. Also 2/0 cable for connecting batteries, controller, and motor.

Radio shack, for parts for control box.

Ebay, for meters, digital tach, digital volt/amp meter, (still in transit)

Alternate cheap source for motor and controller is Golden Motor, but they couldn't beat the price I paid for Kelly/Motenergy setup.

For kits, look at Thunderstruck or Electricmotorsports. Thunderstruck also has a nice open belt reduction gear.
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Old 14-11-2014, 12:40   #112
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Re: It Begins: Converting Cal 2-27 to Electric Propulsion!

Be careful with that microwave. When I was in electronics school we had an instructor kill him self trying to fix his microwave. I personally would just go for a conventional solid state charger.


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Old 14-11-2014, 14:16   #113
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Re: It Begins: Converting Cal 2-27 to Electric Propulsion!

This is an outstanding project which I will be emulating. I'm interested in the Sine v square wave issues. This is the first I've heard, about the noise associated with the motor being ran on different inverters. Glad to find out now. More research needed.
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Old 17-11-2014, 20:17   #114
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Re: It Begins: Converting Cal 2-27 to Electric Propulsion!

Looks good Growley! For the charger, the only only advice I can provide is the one aboard our boat. We have the Pro Charging Systems SS4. It does perform an equalization once every 30 days, according to the tech rep I spoke with, and will provide the voltage both our boats require with 48v banks.
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Old 18-11-2014, 06:17   #115
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Re: It Begins: Converting Cal 2-27 to Electric Propulsion!

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Looks good Growley! For the charger, the only only advice I can provide is the one aboard our boat. We have the Pro Charging Systems SS4. It does perform an equalization once every 30 days, according to the tech rep I spoke with, and will provide the voltage both our boats require with 48v banks.
Thanks, Foggy! Do you remember what it cost? How many amps? How big is your bank?
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Old 18-11-2014, 06:37   #116
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Re: It Begins: Converting Cal 2-27 to Electric Propulsion!

Great stuff MonsterMan !

n'cept... Them Yankees gunna think ya talk funny...
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Old 18-11-2014, 07:08   #117
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Re: It Begins: Converting Cal 2-27 to Electric Propulsion!

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This is an outstanding project which I will be emulating. I'm interested in the Sine v square wave issues. This is the first I've heard, about the noise associated with the motor being ran on different inverters. Glad to find out now. More research needed.
Bear in mind that the noise difference afaik is anecdotal. I have not actually ran this motor with the Sevcon controller yet.
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Old 18-11-2014, 07:09   #118
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Re: It Begins: Converting Cal 2-27 to Electric Propulsion!

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Great stuff MonsterMan !

n'cept... Them Yankees gunna think ya talk funny...
God talks like we talk.
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Old 18-11-2014, 13:13   #119
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Re: It Begins: Converting Cal 2-27 to Electric Propulsion!

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Thanks, Foggy! Do you remember what it cost? How many amps? How big is your bank?
Ours was installed by the previous owner. A quick look around the net found it for less certain places than others. Impact Battery has it for $363.99 . It is a 40A charger (10a x 4). Our bank is four 110ah AGM's, but I'm am getting ready to install a secondary bank.

SS4 Dual Pro Waterproof Boat Charger 4 Bank 10A
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Old 21-11-2014, 14:43   #120
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Re: It Begins: Converting Cal 2-27 to Electric Propulsion!

Control box MkII. Got rid of regeneration switch and pot, added digital tach, ammeter, and bank voltmeter. Haven't hooked it up yet to the system. Tomorrow maybe. But it will be a big improvement over meters just laying loose on top of the battery box, and the controls are more ergonomic.
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