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Old 26-07-2014, 20:56   #31
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Re: It begins: converting Cal 2-27 to electric propulsion!

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Originally Posted by SkiprJohn View Post
The first sea trials on my friend's electric showed that the prop was too large which overheated the electric motor. Make some good calculations on that one and you shouldn't have much problems on your conversion. There is so much written on the subject that you have a lot of reference material to help you.

Best of luck on your conversion.
You are not the first person to report overheating when the motor is overloaded at low rpm. And in fact today I decided to go with a reduction drive after all. I ordered an enclosed gear reduction from electricmotorsports. Better safe than sorry, especially since I will probably end up going with a higher pitch fixed prop in the near future.
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Old 26-07-2014, 20:58   #32
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Re: It begins: converting Cal 2-27 to electric propulsion!

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Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post
I have two of these motors and have built my own controller for them.
They are rather noisy, in fact, I'd call them VERY LOUD for an electric motor,
really unacceptable for me.
If buried in your boat, it may not matter much.
Listen to how loud they are, skip to about 2 minutes.
(This is not my video, but I get the same noise with my controller)
Another video with the Kelly controller also shows how loud they are.

Was the noise from the motor, or from drive belts? Some belt drive setups generate considerable noise.
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Old 26-07-2014, 21:03   #33
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Re: It begins: converting Cal 2-27 to electric propulsion!

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Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post
I have two of these motors and have built my own controller for them.
They are rather noisy, in fact, I'd call them VERY LOUD for an electric motor,
really unacceptable for me.
If buried in your boat, it may not matter much.
Listen to how loud they are, skip to about 2 minutes.
(This is not my video, but I get the same noise with my controller)
Another video with the Kelly controller also shows how loud they are.

Oh, and I might be interested in details of your homebrew controller, for a mk.II modification at some future time.
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Old 27-07-2014, 06:22   #34
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Re: It begins: converting Cal 2-27 to electric propulsion!

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Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster View Post
And in fact today I decided to go with a reduction drive after all. I ordered an enclosed gear reduction from electricmotorsports.
I've had my eye on that electricmotorsorts reduction drive instead of the belt & pulley system. I'd be interested in knowing how this works out for you. Someone that just finished up an EP install was complaining about the hum from the drive when the prop was free wheeling while sailing with the belt reduction system.

Thanks,
Bob
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Old 27-07-2014, 07:09   #35
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Re: It begins: converting Cal 2-27 to electric propulsion!

Will you gain enough space for more storage, or a quarter berth? Curious to know what extent of battery monitoring you are going with and what your feelings are about how effective it can be?
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Old 27-07-2014, 07:34   #36
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Re: It begins: converting Cal 2-27 to electric propulsion!

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Originally Posted by misfits View Post
I've had my eye on that electricmotorsorts reduction drive instead of the belt & pulley system. I'd be interested in knowing how this works out for you. Someone that just finished up an EP install was complaining about the hum from the drive when the prop was free wheeling while sailing with the belt reduction system.

Thanks,
Bob
You could put a mechanical break on the shaft but, I've discovered the beauty of "electrosailing" i.e. just turning the prop with enough amps to eliminate prop drag. You get a nice boost in speed with low energy consumption especially in light winds. As the wind picks up along with boat speed my Thoosa system starts to regen and charge the battery bank. It's a win win either way IMO. Almost as quiet as under sail alone too!
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Old 27-07-2014, 07:43   #37
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Re: It begins: converting Cal 2-27 to electric propulsion!

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Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster View Post
You got that right. I spent an hour or two just removing old hoses, wiring, blowers, etc. Now I can crawl in my engine room, where before it was all I could do to just squirm like a worm. Lots of old dry rotted plywood down there gonna come out, where the gas tank was. I can't wait to scrub it clean and hit it with some good epoxy paint.

You are running on 48v, right? I might want to ask you stuff about your solar setup some time. I'll be adding solar and wind maybe next year, after creating a pilothouse and a hard top over the cockpit.
Yep I have a 48 volt system and it's gotten quite boring how little needs to be done to maintain it even seven years out. Honda 2000 generator is where most of the maintenance time/cost went. Be glad to answer any questions on the solar setup when you are ready.
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Old 27-07-2014, 09:51   #38
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Re: It begins: converting Cal 2-27 to electric propulsion!

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Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster View Post
Was the noise from the motor, or from drive belts? Some belt drive setups generate considerable noise.
I take it you didn't watch the video? There are no drive belts.
I have older motors, so perhaps they have fixed the noise issue,
I would hope so, but I doubt they have made any changes.
I thought it might have been my controller, but it wasn't.

I would have sold you one of my motors at half what they charge. I'd also not use a reduction gear, what overheats the motor at low speed is the fan is not running at its design speed, you can just remove the internal fan and use an external one. In fact, you might want to do that anyway if the motor is in a tight space. Cheaper and more efficient than a reduction gear, which can make noise also.

These brushless pancake motors are good for lighter weight, but that just doesn't seem important for a boat with ballast.
I would suggest using a golf cart motor, can find them used pretty cheap sometimes, designed for lower speed.
And as a DC motor, if the controller goes bad, you can just jump them with a direct 12v to run them.
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Old 27-07-2014, 13:06   #39
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Re: It begins: converting Cal 2-27 to electric propulsion!

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Will you gain enough space for more storage, or a quarter berth? Curious to know what extent of battery monitoring you are going with and what your feelings are about how effective it can be?
There will be a tremendous space gain. Water maker is going back there for sure. The forward part will become part of the salon cause I will be pushing the after bulkhead aft a couple feet. Really I could make a very cramped aft cabin if I wanted to. The port side will house my new fridge. The stbd side will help make a full length salon berth.

The ventilation hoses took up a huge amount of space. Fuel tank too. Now the atomic is gone gone gone. Got it out this morning.
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Old 27-07-2014, 13:51   #40
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Re: It Begins: Converting Cal 2-27 to Electric Propulsion!

Amid much splintering of wood, creaking of blocks, and grinding of metal, the A4 came Out of its nest. Rocked it back and forth with pry bars and scrapers, sticking blocks underneath, until it was high enough to slide out into the salon. Then hooked on with main halyard and topping lift led to winch, and spinnaker sheet led aft. Got it up rail high, then pulled it onto the finger pier with a 4 part tackle I rigged last year for mast climbing. Helpers:0. Gotter done myself. Now it's time for a Jim beam break.
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Old 27-07-2014, 14:23   #41
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Re: It begins: converting Cal 2-27 to electric propulsion!

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Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post
I take it you didn't watch the video? There are no drive belts.
I have older motors, so perhaps they have fixed the noise issue,
I would hope so, but I doubt they have made any changes.
I thought it might have been my controller, but it wasn't.

I would have sold you one of my motors at half what they charge. I'd also not use a reduction gear, what overheats the motor at low speed is the fan is not running at its design speed, you can just remove the internal fan and use an external one. In fact, you might want to do that anyway if the motor is in a tight space. Cheaper and more efficient than a reduction gear, which can make noise also.

These brushless pancake motors are good for lighter weight, but that just doesn't seem important for a boat with ballast.
I would suggest using a golf cart motor, can find them used pretty cheap sometimes, designed for lower speed.
And as a DC motor, if the controller goes bad, you can just jump them with a direct 12v to run them.
Yeah I thought about a brush type motor but meh. I have a spare motor. Soon I will have a spare controller too, either another Kelly, or a homebrewed one. So I will soon have full redundancy.

What motor? Wow if it was a motenergy bldc, I would have bought it. Either a 0913 or a 0907, for sure. I got the '4201. But somebody will buy them off you.
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Old 27-07-2014, 14:29   #42
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Re: It begins: converting Cal 2-27 to electric propulsion!

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Will you gain enough space for more storage, or a quarter berth? Curious to know what extent of battery monitoring you are going with and what your feelings are about how effective it can be?
Oh yeah, battery monitoring. Since I am starting off with same brand, new batts, I will just have a meter for state of charge for the whole bank, and an ampmeter. When they start getting a little age I might look at individual monitoring with separate meters. Maybe a roaming 12v charger for individual equalizing.
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Old 27-07-2014, 14:33   #43
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Re: It Begins: Converting Cal 2-27 to Electric Propulsion!

again i repeat myself to say there is a perfectly good islander 36 or comparable sloop using a torqueedo t1003s as their propulsion device as they cruise the west coast of mexico and beyond.
they are incredibly happy with it.
bring electrical connection cleaner by the gallon, is only problem.
otherwise is fabulous.
before ye pan the damn thing, research it. lol.
i have one and i know its capabilities and weaknesses.
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Old 27-07-2014, 14:37   #44
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Re: It begins: converting Cal 2-27 to electric propulsion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster View Post
You are not the first person to report overheating when the motor is overloaded at low rpm. And in fact today I decided to go with a reduction drive after all. I ordered an enclosed gear reduction from electricmotorsports. Better safe than sorry, especially since I will probably end up going with a higher pitch fixed prop in the near future.
If you mate your prop to your motor's specifics now you won't have the overheating problem and not need the reduction gear.

When I helped my friend launch I could tell by the size of the prop that he was going to have issues. It was a large 4 blade.

It was the size of the prop at issue and not cooling fans which might also be an issue.
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Old 27-07-2014, 14:49   #45
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Re: It begins: converting Cal 2-27 to electric propulsion!

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Originally Posted by SkiprJohn View Post
If you mate your prop to your motor's specifics now you won't have the overheating problem and not need the reduction gear.

When I helped my friend launch I could tell by the size of the prop that he was going to have issues. It was a large 4 blade.

It was the size of the prop at issue and not cooling fans which might also be an issue.
Post #83 in this thread about 4 minutes into the video you can see the size of his prop on the 32.

His final solution was a reduction gear in that he wanted to keep the large prop for regeneration.

Thomas Gilmer Aries 32
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