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19-12-2016, 03:28
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#61
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 18,423
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Re: Is this as bad as it looks?
So 3 days on and over a weekend presumably the manifold has been removed for inspection, yes?
Pete
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19-12-2016, 03:30
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#62
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Denham Springs, LA
Boat: 1962 Sunfish
Posts: 481
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Re: Is this as bad as it looks?
No. I went there three days ago and determined I'm not a deisel mechanic. And I don't live near the boat.
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19-12-2016, 03:50
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#63
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Easton, MD
Boat: 15' Catboat, Bristol 35.5
Posts: 3,510
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Re: Is this as bad as it looks?
Have you considered an outboard?
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19-12-2016, 03:52
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#64
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Denham Springs, LA
Boat: 1962 Sunfish
Posts: 481
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Re: Is this as bad as it looks?
No. Gonna pay someone to fix it.
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19-12-2016, 04:22
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#65
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Port Credit, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 7,060
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Re: Is this as bad as it looks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by moseriw
Well yes BUT we have surveyors to get an expertise and NOT disclaimers or statements like "On deck I see an outboard engine make/type"
My Question: did you test it - answer NO.
On my boast the surveyor did not check the seacock that were cheap brass plumbing scrap.
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You should have hired a better surveyor.
__________________
If you're not laughing, you're not doin' it right.
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19-12-2016, 05:20
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#66
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Vienna, Austria
Boat: Vagabond 47
Posts: 922
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Re: Is this as bad as it looks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker
You should have hired a better surveyor.
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Yes of course but what was first - the hen or the egg.
You only know the quality after u have tested it.
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19-12-2016, 05:32
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#67
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Port Credit, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 7,060
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Re: Is this as bad as it looks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by moseriw
Yes of course but what was first - the hen or the egg.
You only know the quality after u have tested it.
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How to Choose a Marine Surveyor
__________________
If you're not laughing, you're not doin' it right.
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19-12-2016, 06:27
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#68
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Florida
Boat: Scout 30
Posts: 3,112
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Re: Is this as bad as it looks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker
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After looking at your side by side comparisons you're the kind of surveyor one hopes to hire. Reporting what is readily apparent should be the standard & you've clearly met that. However, the motors aren't run & there's no compression check or oil analysis. The transmissions aren't put in gear or shifted & the alternator output isn't checked. We don't know if the motors are hard to start, smoking & if so what color, how much blow by there is, how well it's pumping water or even if there's a vacuum leak in the fuel lines. I'm no expert & I'm sure there are more things that should be checked but none of this will be checked by a surveyor. Buyers need to hire a mechanic to check out the motor.
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19-12-2016, 06:49
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#69
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 18,423
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Re: Is this as bad as it looks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madwand
No. Gonna pay someone to fix it.
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Probably a good decision, or there would have been lots of skinned knuckles taking that off, not to mention snapped bolts and hassle.
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19-12-2016, 06:58
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#70
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Port Credit, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 7,060
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Re: Is this as bad as it looks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scout 30
After looking at your side by side comparisons you're the kind of surveyor one hopes to hire. Reporting what is readily apparent should be the standard & you've clearly met that. However, the motors aren't run & there's no compression check or oil analysis. The transmissions aren't put in gear or shifted & the alternator output isn't checked. We don't know if the motors are hard to start, smoking & if so what color, how much blow by there is, how well it's pumping water or even if there's a vacuum leak in the fuel lines. I'm no expert & I'm sure there are more things that should be checked but none of this will be checked by a surveyor. Buyers need to hire a mechanic to check out the motor.
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Kind of agree with you but a true and complete diesel (six cylinder)survey will cost close to 1k in Ontario mostly because the injectors and fuel lines have to be removed to do compression test and that is time consuming. 1k on top of haulout and survey costs is often a stretch on lower priced vessels.
If you are buying a vessel with a pair of 500hp, common rails with electronic fuel system, absolutely bite the bullet for two engine surveys.
I do advise a separate engine survey in my Scope of Survey Statement but truthfully this is just CYA. What I actually tell my clients is......
For older mechanical fuel systems whether big Perkins Lehmans or small Yanmars I'm not convinced a separate engine survey is warranted.
If the engine starts instantly, smoke clears in 30 seconds and the vessel responds to throttle there is likely not much wrong. Checking coolant condition, a close visual inspection of all hoses fuel and exhaust connections. monitoring temperatures of various parts of the engine (IR), load and shift operations during sea trial will tell you just about everything you need to know and all of this should be done by a competent surveyor whether or not an engine survey is on order.
I do advise a separate engine survey in my Scope of Survey Statement but truthfully this is just CYA
__________________
If you're not laughing, you're not doin' it right.
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19-12-2016, 07:17
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#71
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Florida
Boat: Scout 30
Posts: 3,112
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Re: Is this as bad as it looks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker
Kind of agree with you but a true and complete diesel (six cylinder)survey will cost close to 1k in Ontario mostly because the injectors and fuel lines have to be removed to do compression test and that is time consuming. 1k on top of haulout and survey costs is often a stretch on lower priced vessels.
If you are buying a vessel with a pair of 500hp, common rails with electronic fuel system, absolutely bite the bullet for two engine surveys.
I do advise a separate engine survey in my Scope of Survey Statement but truthfully this is just CYA. What I actually tell my clients is......
For older mechanical fuel systems whether big Perkins Lehmans or small Yanmars I'm not convinced a separate engine survey is warranted.
If the engine starts instantly, smoke clears in 30 seconds and the vessel responds to throttle there is likely not much wrong. Checking coolant condition, a close visual inspection of all hoses fuel and exhaust connections. monitoring temperatures of various parts of the engine (IR), load and shift operations during sea trial will tell you just about everything you need to know and all of this should be done by a competent surveyor whether or not an engine survey is on order.
I do advise a separate engine survey in my Scope of Survey Statement but truthfully this is just CYA
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A lot of the threads these days involve the purchase of boats built in the 70's to 80's by people with little or no experience. We're talking 30- 45 year old diesels that cost 10- 20k to replace. Wouldn't you agree that for someone with no experience at least some kind of inspection by a mechanic makes sense? What kind of basic mechanic's inspection would you recommend & what would the typical cost for a small Yanmar, Volvo or Perkins be?
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19-12-2016, 07:57
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#72
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Florida
Boat: Scout 30
Posts: 3,112
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Re: Is this as bad as it looks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Island Time O25
My limited experience of owning only 5 boats tells me that for a 30+ year old boat with original engine one must budget either the cost of some rebuilt if not full re-power or at the least the cost of replacing some pricey items such as water pump, starter, alternator, etc. But if you're getting an otherwise decently kept boat it may be worth it as opposed to getting one with a newish or recently rebuilt engine but which otherwise is in less than nice condition for its age.
Contrary to popular opinion there is absolutely no need or reason to put a brand new $7-10K engine into a 30+ year old boat unless that boat is otherwise in A+ Bristol shape. Best approach is to install a rebuilt engine and such installation incl. the price of the used engine should not run more than $2,000-$3,000 if the same engine make and model is used. That way if yo have to sell you will not lose as much as you would with the new engine. It's cost will never be recaptured upon resale. While the cost of installing the used one probably can or be at least close.
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2-3K to pull your motor, buy a rebuilt motor & install it? I don't know what you're smoking but I gotta get me sum a dat!
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19-12-2016, 07:58
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#73
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Denham Springs, LA
Boat: 1962 Sunfish
Posts: 481
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Re: Is this as bad as it looks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scout 30
2-3K to pull your motor, buy a rebuilt motor & install it? I don't know what you're smoking but I gotta get me sum a dat!
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Yeah, it's going to cost me close to that just to replace the manifold and the plumbing that goes with it.
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19-12-2016, 08:18
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#74
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Houston
Boat: ‘01 Catana 401
Posts: 9,626
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Re: Is this as bad as it looks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madwand
Yeah, it's going to cost me close to that just to replace the manifold and the plumbing that goes with it.
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Unless your photos are missing a big mess on the manifold I'm just not seeing why you think the manifold will need replacement?!?
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19-12-2016, 08:25
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#75
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Denham Springs, LA
Boat: 1962 Sunfish
Posts: 481
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Re: Is this as bad as it looks?
The photos show the end of the manifold attached to a big rusty rotten mess. The bolts are going to break off when you turn them. If you take the big rusty mess to a machine shop to clean it, if they can clean it, it's going to cost more than a new one. If by some miracle, it's still serviceable, it still needs to come off for cleaning. I'm not in a position to tell a mechanic how to do it and so far, I'm not even able to find one who says he'll do it.
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