Injection pump issues again

[dnimigon]

Here's the story.
Universal M-25XPB. New engine installed in 2009 In a 1979 Catalina 30
We bought boat from widow after new engine had been installed. He had cancer so boat sat 4 years. Engine had 56 hrs on it when we bought it. Used it for a couple seasons. No issues. Put maybe 100 hrs on engine. We live in Canada but boat is kept in Peurto Vallarta. Boat sits during summer months. Last xmas when we were down we had injector pump problems. Took pump out and found 3 broken main pump springs. No one here can fix so took pump back to Canada and had injection shop rebuild.
We came back down in April and installed rebuilt pump. Were here about 2 1/2 weeks and no issues. Engine then had about 175 hrs on it. Boat sat again from April till this past xmas Dec 14th. Had issues with water pump">raw water pump, water getting into oil. Resolved that and changed oil a few times to clear. Ran engine maybe 2 hrs and all seemed fine. Next day ran engine at slip maybe one hour, all seemed good. Went out into bay , no wind so motored. Engine ran maybe 2 to 2 1/2 hrs then quit. Low on fuel i thought. Yes it was low a bit so filled but now wouldn't start. No fuel getting to 2 injectors after bleeding. Got towed back to slip. Tried many things and still no go. Took side cover off injection pump to find fuel rack slider stuck. Got loosened and cranked engine, it started then quit after a few minutes. Took cover off again and rack stuck, could not loosen. De3cided to pull pump out. Took spring clip off bottom and found broken springs again.
This engine only has 175 or so hrs on it. What the heck is going on. I've e-mailed a few deisel shops and also westerbeke but haven't heard much back yet. I talked with a few others on the sailing sites last year when we had issues and they said they have left theirs sit for longer periods with no issues and they were in the Florida area. Kind of same environment. I use good oil and good fuel filters. It is Bosch (Nextel) 3 cylinder pump. Engine uses the Kubota D-950 block. Apparently can use same pump and parts look similar but unsure about all of that. I did tons of research on this when having issues first time. Injection shop in Alberta said moisture around pump can cause springs to rust, then when using they would snap. I know of lots of farmers leave equipment up north sitting all winter and fire up in spring. But that's a different climate. Got to be tons of these engines around these kind of climates we are in. Has anyone had this kind of problem. I could maybe see this if it had thousands of hours on it but this is a new engine. And i just had the pump rebuilt by a certified shop. Cost $800. Now its screwed again. And the engine is basically new. Should be able to run this with no problems for years. Someone please tell me what the heck is going on. Sure not fun coming down for a holiday and spend time in marina fixing. Wife's starting to get ticked off. Me too.

[dnimigon]

[DeepFrz]

Someone stealing your pumps? Do you have a record of the pump serial number that was repaired?

[capt jgw]

That is the same pump as in a D950 in a tractor if that helps. Local shop here rebuilt my two cylinder Universal pump for $200, I imagine a three would be $300, etc. That was a flat rate for that size pump and they replaced plungers and springs. Can't imagine the same parts failing again so quickly, maybe something else they didn't replace broke. Have you checked the nozzles? Also the same as in a tractor and about $45 each. I got a pair on ebay.

[leftbrainstuff]

Hard to diagnose from afar.

I'd suspect the pump was partially rebuilt. If it was mine I'd strip it completely, check all clearances, ndt the springs and have a good look at key components under some magnification.

I have no experience with this pump or engine. The above approach is how I've repaired pre war one off specials and race cars where no manuals or experts exist.

The failure modes you've described seem to relate to wear or material defects possibly related to corrosion or wear. I assume your fuel is clean. It can never be too clean.

Did the repair shop provide any test results? I'd expect max pressure, bleed down, spring stiffness etc.

Did the shop you take it to have experience with this pump. That is your best chance for success. They will know what to look out for.

[DumnMad]

My 1st choice for cause of injector issues would be water in the fuel, particularly with one breakdown occurring when fuel level was low.

[rognvald]

D,
I'm going to offer a, perhaps, simplified solution based on the fact that your engine sat for four years and that you store your boat for extended periods of time, at present. Considering that fuel quality may be questionable in Mexico and climate(dry?) may be a factor, do you use a fuel stabilizer and an engine oil treatment for extended storage? Do you change your fuel filters and oil before decommissioning your vessel? Contaminated fuel can wreak havoc with your injection system from the lift pump to the injectors and a dry engine is an invitation for rust and corrosion. Your problems, in my opinion, are not co-incidental but symptomatic of an existing issue post layup if the engine operates properly once commissioned. Good luck and safe sailing.

[dnimigon]

Injection shop is reputable and yes gave me tech sheet with all pressure checks. They do all kinds of pumps and seemed familiar with this one as they do the rebuilds for the Kubota dealer where we live. Plus all the other types of pumps.
Fuel I'm sure is an issue and no I didn't do an oil change before leaving the boat sit. But what i did do as i knew pump had issues was i took the side cover off the pump and lathered the bottom end with oil thinking this would keep things rust free till returning months later. Guess not. Even if this engine sat for months can these springs get rusted up enough to cause them to break. As i said we ran the engine maybe 4-6 hrs prior to this happening. And when we were down in April with the newly rebuilt pump we maybe put 25 hrs on it or more, no issue. All of a sudden they just went again. They are a steel spring and i guess there ar stainless ones. Can't seem to see why this would happen to our boat as there must be hundreds of these engines in this same type of environment.

[DumnMad]

dnimi,
Not to say this will solve your problem but I suggest it a good idea to replace the neoprene ring under the diesel deck filler cap with new one.

[Lepke]

Sounds like water in the fuel problems. Your primary fuel filter may not be catching enough water. A proper fuel additive will help extract water from the fuel.
You may have a build up of crap in the fuel tanks from not using fuel treatment. In my experience warmer climates grow more biological stuff and form more water in the tanks.
Each day as the boat warms, expansion causes air to be expelled thru the tank vents. At night with contraction in the coolness, air is drawn in, bringing moisture and air borne bacteria. Just like a lung.

[maine50]

I had water in my oil due to defective antisiphon device. About 6 weeks later had problem with solenoid sticking in high pressure pump. Showed evidence of
rust in pump. I think the lube oil is used to lubricate pump somehow and that's
how the problem began. The pump was replaced and never had the problem again.

[dnimigon]

Have been in contact with injections shop in Canada where i had pump rebuilt. Someone going to pick up new parts i need and bring them down on Sat. Ill put back together. Pump shop if trying to find out why this happened again. Says shouldn't have happened with only 25 or so hours on rebuilt pump.

[dnimigon]

These pumps are 3 cylinder Kubota pumps. Top is fuel end, bottom is oil end. 2 separate areas in pump . Bottom part is where issues are happening. I use good oil and proper filters. I'm thinking as i didn't know at the time i didn't put new oil in prior to leaving the boat sit for those 6-7 months during the humid summer season. Probably bad oil around pump area cause springs to rust again. Although before i left engine that time in April i took side cover off pump and lathered it in oil to protect it as it was going to sit.

[dnimigon]

Got reply back from injection shop. They were in contact with Bosch and Nextel. They say lots of these pumps having same issues on low time engines. Not pumps problem. Blaming engine. Go figure. Pass the buck thing. So now what?

[thruska]

Hmmm.... so Bosch and Nextel are saying their pumps are only good on long running engines? How foolish can they be? How do they get to be long running if they can't short run ? Lol pretty ridiculous answer from Bosch. Sounds to me like a bad batch of springs.
Recall time !
That's one shot in the foot for them for sure !����