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Old 27-04-2016, 00:49   #31
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Re: In need of new engine - What do you think/what is your opinion?

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that Diesel will go the way of steam for some folks who live where there is ample wind and sun... and then only for those who don't require reliable (in all weather and solar conditions) power for longer distances.

If you avoid those awkward issues by postulating an onboard generator, well, the diesel is still there, but with an added loss of efficiency.

It's always unpleasant when reality gets in the way of the idealism of new ideas.

Jim
No awkward issues here. Plenty of sun and wind in Hawai'i. Longer distances are what sail are for.
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Old 27-04-2016, 01:49   #32
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Re: In need of new engine - What do you think/what is your opinion?

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No awkward issues here. Plenty of sun and wind in Hawai'i. Longer distances are what sail are for.
Ummm... when diesel has gone the way of steam, as you propose, what will become of power vessels? They do, often, have diesels nowadays, don't they?

I'm not against the use of electric engines in boats,be they sail or power oriented. I am against blanket statements like you made which do not consider the realities of the world... like some folks living and sailing where the wind and the sun are fickle, who don't keep their boats in marinas with handy electrical outlets, and whose sailing habits require the use of some form of mechanical propulsion on a regular basis. Such folks as these will be using diesel or other combustion engines for a long time to come. Other, more fortunate folks may well be enjoying the obvious good things that come from electrical propulsion.

And BTW, there are still some folks with steam engines (though not many in sailing yachts).

Jim
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Old 27-04-2016, 07:17   #33
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Re: In need of new engine - What do you think/what is your opinion?

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I sent you a private message. I have a 20 HP FWC Kubota diesel for sale $700 USD and it yours
That's a deal! Vetus motors are Mitsubishis. Good reliable diesels. You need to jump on it. Great forum!
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Old 27-04-2016, 13:59   #34
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Re: In need of new engine - What do you think/what is your opinion?

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That's a deal! Vetus motors are Mitsubishis. Good reliable diesels. You need to jump on it. Great forum!
@DRS - I responded back to you. You said the engine came off a dead genny, do you know what model of engine or generator it is? I want to make sure the tranny from my existing engine will fit onto your engine or if it wont, i need to figure out what it will cost me to get a new/used one(if its possible) before I give the big green thumbs up!

@Scout - For a running diesel that needs minimal work for $700? Yeahhhhh i would say thats a gooooddd deal! I doubt my existing tranny will fit this engine, but I would hope a new one wont cost me over $700 either.


@everyone - Thanks for all the tips/recommendations! I dont expect to be going long term cruising(motoring for hours on end), however being in the pacific northwest and cruising the puget sound, it seems like summer is when wind is very seldom. That means I will NEED to motor due to being on a schedule(god i can't wait for the day till schedules dont drive my life).

That said, even though as much as I want to go all electric with wind generator/solar/gas genny, it just does not see economical due to battery tech(unless going lithium which is not happening).

The idea of just running with an outboard with extra long shaft is still up in the air. I will be down on the boat this weekend which means I'm going to start digging into the 15hp merc that i'm running now to see if i can figure out exactly what is causing the issues we have now(carb clean/fuel filter clean).

My eyes have been peeled for a diesel, so if I missed DRS's opportunity, i'll be able to snatch the next one that hopefully comes around.
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Old 27-04-2016, 18:13   #35
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Re: In need of new engine - What do you think/what is your opinion?

I had the same problem as you caused by lubrication failure ( Yanmar YSM8 engine)
IMO you are far better off with a diesel given your needs but you could get away with an outboard in calm weather. Best/easiest solution is to find a good used engine that fits your engine bed is my guess.
If you have lots of time & enough mechanical skills you can resuscitate your Perkins but not worth it if you pay marine parts prices & pay for labour. I got a single crankpin ground for $40 as I told the shop I would forgo crack-testing, straightness testing & a guarantee but if your mainbearing journals are knackered too it mite be problematic. Had to weld up & machine my egg-shaped conrod ( NOT recommended) & machine up a custom big-end bearing outa LG2 Bronze which I examined after 30 hrs running & no visible signs of wear Suggest getting on tractor forums to hunt for used parts as thats probably easier if you dont have access to a lathe. Absolutely need to check your oil pump as suggested in another post.
Hard to believe you cant find a good used diesel around Washington State & B.C. Check shops that do repowers & sailboat clubs .
Hope you find something useful in this.
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Old 27-04-2016, 23:07   #36
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Re: In need of new engine - What do you think/what is your opinion?

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Ummm... when diesel has gone the way of steam, as you propose, what will become of power vessels? They do, often, have diesels nowadays, don't they?

I'm not against the use of electric engines in boats,be they sail or power oriented. I am against blanket statements like you made which do not consider the realities of the world... like some folks living and sailing where the wind and the sun are fickle, who don't keep their boats in marinas with handy electrical outlets, and whose sailing habits require the use of some form of mechanical propulsion on a regular basis. Such folks as these will be using diesel or other combustion engines for a long time to come. Other, more fortunate folks may well be enjoying the obvious good things that come from electrical propulsion.

And BTW, there are still some folks with steam engines (though not many in sailing yachts).

Jim
Aloha Jim: Perhaps you haven't heard of the yachts crossing the Atlantic with solar, or the plane that is flying around the world with solar (that just recently left Hawai'i and landed in California on its most recent leg. Google Solar Cloth
from UK Sailmakers for a look at the latest tech. These technologies will develop rapidly as people see $$. In addition, the freewheeling prop while sailing is a generator. And let's not forget about wind or other towed devices.

Diesel will hang on till it's not economical viable, then fall by the wayside. In a similar vein, what happened to all the horses?

We all sail where we want to. In my reality, life's too short to sail in less than enjoyable conditions (enjoyable being the operative word here) when there are so many great places in the world.
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Old 28-04-2016, 06:59   #37
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Re: In need of new engine - What do you think/what is your opinion?

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No awkward issues here. Plenty of sun and wind in Hawai'i. Longer distances are what sail are for.
The OP lives in Seattle. Electric may work fine for you. That does not mean it is going to work fine for everyone everywhere. For the overwhelming majority of sailors, an electric motor would have to be backed up by a diesel or gasoline generator, which negates a lot of the advantages.

To the OP, you say you are considering a 5KW electric motor, and have a 2KW generator that you can use to power it if you have to. You do see the mathematical problem there, don't you?
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Old 28-04-2016, 09:09   #38
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Re: In need of new engine - What do you think/what is your opinion?

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The OP lives in Seattle. Electric may work fine for you. That does not mean it is going to work fine for everyone everywhere. For the overwhelming majority of sailors, an electric motor would have to be backed up by a diesel or gasoline generator, which negates a lot of the advantages.

To the OP, you say you are considering a 5KW electric motor, and have a 2KW generator that you can use to power it if you have to. You do see the mathematical problem there, don't you?
Not a problem there. You dont always have to run a 5kw motor at 5kw, and you dont always have to be charging at the same rate that the bank is being discharged. 5kw motor in a 48v system is drawing roughly 100a and you almost never use that much power. I typically cruise at about 15a which is call it 750w. In this case a 1kw generator will keep up. If the generator doesnt keep up then there is a gradual net discharge, of course, but much slower than with no generator at all. Bigger bank means more wiggle room and less dependence on a genset. Balancing act, Compromises, etc. You just have to use your power more intelligently and rationally. You don't always have to make hull speed just because you can. If you are always obsessed with hurrying to a destination, then electric is only a good option when you only need to motor a few miles at the most, anyway. Otherwise you can of course get a generator big enough to always keep up with power consumption but that would not be the way I would do it. When I am on my boat I am already at my destination.
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Old 28-04-2016, 09:32   #39
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Re: In need of new engine - What do you think/what is your opinion?

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I am afraid you will find 6HP inadequate. I had an Oday27 an OMC 9.9HP was iffy and the hull on her is probably much like yours.

The last OB I bought for a sail boat was a Honda 15 four stroke with the 28" leg. Great quiet engine but your pockets need to be deeper.
I'm using a Mercury 5 hp 4 stroke extra long shaft (58 lbs) on my Bristol 27 (for the last 5 years) and it works great. If I have problems with power, I put the sail(s) up to assist the engine

The 15 hp 4 stroke would be too heavy on the back of the Bristol 27 I'm thinking

Outboards have their drawbacks as has been discussed on here many times, but for around $1,500 or so you can buy a new engine you know will work.

You may have to plan a bit more in some cases to come and go from your slip/anchorage in bad weather.

I've motored across the lower Chesapeake Bay (20 miles) with my 5 hp on a bit over a gallon of fuel also. Once the wind stopped after it had been heavy so the waves were large. I motor sailed that and had to take a heading somewhat off course but I was able to get in that way

In several instances, I had to use my mainsail to help get me out of a narrow creek going into waves and maybe 18 -20 knots winds. I needed to have that sail up anyway for after I cleared the last marker at which time I rolled out the jib and sailed off the wind some.........and brought the engine up later.

Another time I have to sail and tack to get out a narrow creek with the engine running.......

Several boats the size of the Bristol 27 have circumnavigated with an outboard as their only power source.

And you don't need a starter battery. My two 12 volt batteries are now in parallel and provide all the power I need. They are charged from a 100 Watt solar panel
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Old 28-04-2016, 10:35   #40
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Re: In need of new engine - What do you think/what is your opinion?

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Aloha Jim: Perhaps you haven't heard of the yachts crossing the Atlantic with solar, or the plane that is flying around the world with solar (that just recently left Hawai'i and landed in California on its most recent leg. Google Solar Cloth
from UK Sailmakers for a look at the latest tech. These technologies will develop rapidly as people see $$. In addition, the freewheeling prop while sailing is a generator. And let's not forget about wind or other towed devices.

Diesel will hang on till it's not economical viable, then fall by the wayside. In a similar vein, what happened to all the horses?

We all sail where we want to. In my reality, life's too short to sail in less than enjoyable conditions (enjoyable being the operative word here) when there are so many great places in the world.
... and perhaps you haven't noticed the plane that just did that was very lightly built, unable to carry a payload and had to be done in specific weather routing to keep from folding up like a pretzel.
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Old 28-04-2016, 11:15   #41
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Re: In need of new engine - What do you think/what is your opinion?

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... and perhaps you haven't noticed the plane that just did that was very lightly built, unable to carry a payload and had to be done in specific weather routing to keep from folding up like a pretzel.
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Old 28-04-2016, 12:20   #42
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Re: In need of new engine - What do you think/what is your opinion?

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Not a problem there.
Maybe "problem" isn't the right word. As you pointed out, though...

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Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster View Post
If the generator doesnt keep up then there is a gradual net discharge... You just have to use your power more intelligently and rationally.
Perhaps a better way of putting it would be, if you have a 5kw motor, and a 2kw energy source for that motor, then you need to be crystal clear in understanding the limitations you are operating under.
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Old 28-04-2016, 12:48   #43
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Re: In need of new engine - What do you think/what is your opinion?

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The first option is to pickup a Tohatsu SailPro 6hp engine. There are two shops within 10miles that have this engine in stock and are authorized dealers, so warranty would be easy to cash in on. I believe they are selling them for about $1750 including sales tax with the 5 year warranty.

If you decide to go the outboard route .....

Here's that same engine for $1,529.99. Free shipping

You can apply that $200.00 saved toward a good replacement Outboard Bracket if the swing on your present one doesn't take the motor deep enough

Tohatsu 6hp Four-Stroke Outboard Model # MFS6CSPROUL | Best Prices
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Old 28-04-2016, 13:22   #44
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Re: In need of new engine - What do you think/what is your opinion?

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... and perhaps you haven't noticed the plane that just did that was very lightly built, unable to carry a payload and had to be done in specific weather routing to keep from folding up like a pretzel.
Gotta start somewhere. The original Wright Brothers Flyer wasn't particularly sturdy or capable, either.
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Old 30-04-2016, 03:45   #45
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Re: In need of new engine - What do you think/what is your opinion?

If you plan to keep the boat and want to go with an outboard, do yourself a favor and don't get a john boat motor. Hanging over the back to start the motor, shift gears and throttle is a HUGE PIA.

More money, but a "real" sailboat outboard will give you remote throttle and shifting and can be set up for remote steering as well (stick or wheel). For the money, you also get power tilt and a good size alternator for charging your batteries.

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