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Old 10-05-2012, 17:07   #16
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Re: In line fuel filter for 2 stroke outboard

Well its pretty funny how "Old wives tales" seem to flourish.

I just spoke to 3 more outboard "mechanics" from large dealerships in Brisbane and all said no in-line paper filter.

I spoke to the guys at Ryco and another firm that all they do is filters and was told that there is "no way that a paper particulate filter can separate oil from fuel".

So I am off to buy a plastic in-line filter.
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Old 10-05-2012, 20:14   #17
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Re: In line fuel filter for 2 stroke outboard

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I don't understand how a small pin hole (this would allow some air in the line?) could ruin an engine. Is that after the crash/grounding?

I have never had a bulb leak or fail either, but then when I see it needs replacing I do that.
Many a ultralight aircraft with 2-strokes has gone down as it will cause a lean situation(mess up the air gas mix ratio) and the rings will get to hot and stick...I always run mine rich at a 40 to 1 mix ,might foul a plug but since its a powered glider you set up on the LZ and ride her in...DVC
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Old 10-05-2012, 20:27   #18
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Re: In line fuel filter for 2 stroke outboard

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No pleated or paper elements? What do we suppose are in automotive elements and in Raycors? Pleated elements.

Why not in an ultralight? You have to think about the application. Marine paper elements are design to expand (cellulose does this when it sees water) and blind when wet. This prevents engine damage. In a plane, very bad, in a boat, the desired result in most cases. Different horses for different courses; the aviation solution is different, but perhaps not better.

Yes, you should carry a spare (filter and primer). If the primer bulb goes, a hose mender and knife would fix it in 20 seconds, or a simple replacement. Same with the element style you are suggesting. The lee shore argument is off the point. Even if there is a lee shore, I need to know about the water in the fuel, which is MUCH more likely in a boat.

No, I would NOT use the clear filter. Your first suggestion is proven.

FYI, this is what I now do on my outboard powered cat (2 x 9.9 hp Yamaha)...
Sail Delmarva: Gasoline Filtration... and Vent Filtration Too?
There is also a lawn mower element under the cowling.

... and on my tender I use lawn mower elements (too small for 20hp). I can change them in seconds and they only cost $2.50, though they do last over a year. That engine had no filter (strainer inside the fuel tank) when I got it (3.5 hp Merc).
I know not about 4 strokes but 2 strokes will go down if your primer bulb cracks or gets a hole in it.paper filters work but the ceramic type will last longer from my experiance...i think its 6 to some and half a dozen to others..what ever works..I have seen paper filters get dirty and suck a plastic can flat on cans with no or clogged vent..A leaned out engine on a lee shore dont sound good to me but I have never been there..DVC
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Old 10-05-2012, 20:55   #19
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Re: In line fuel filter for 2 stroke outboard

I have been installing these type of paper element filters, and have not had any problems with them.
The original post about stuff in the carb was more than likely from sitting up for awhile, with the type of fuel we have now. Use Stabil, are similar product, and that should not happen again.
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Old 10-05-2012, 21:53   #20
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Re: In line fuel filter for 2 stroke outboard

Considering the millions of outboards worldwide with priming bulbs, it is most surprising that we don't hear much about disastrous failures due to said priming bulbs.

We've been using these things full time for nearly 26 years now, and no priming bulb has ever developed a crack or leak, even though we leave them exposed to the tropical sun (or regular sun when we're out of the tropics). The bulbs do get stiffer with age but don't fail as described.

Airplanes are surely more sensitive to interruptions in fuel supply than are boats, but this sounds like old wives gibberish to me.

Cheers,

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Old 11-05-2012, 10:23   #21
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Re: In line fuel filter for 2 stroke outboard

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Considering the millions of outboards worldwide with priming bulbs, it is most surprising that we don't hear much about disastrous failures due to said priming bulbs.

We've been using these things full time for nearly 26 years now, and no priming bulb has ever developed a crack or leak, even though we leave them exposed to the tropical sun (or regular sun when we're out of the tropics). The bulbs do get stiffer with age but don't fail as described.

Airplanes are surely more sensitive to interruptions in fuel supply than are boats, but this sounds like old wives gibberish to me.

Cheers,

Jim
Im not an old wife but it is not gibberish,dosent take a thinking man to realize that an unwanted hole in(a 2 strock) fuel delivery system will cause the fuel and air mixture to change and if it changes and dosent cause a problem why have jet sets,set screws,needle valves and jet set needle valves..lets do an experiment, take a screw driver and tune your carb ,then stick a hole in the primer bulb with said screwdriver, crank the engine and hold it wide open for a few moments, if its an old wives tale it will be ok, if not well you will need to buy a new set of rings ,wrist pin and if the piston gets really hot you will need one of those also.If your jug has a Nikasil coated head you may be able to hone it out ,if not you may need a new jug too....DVC If you maintain the bulb and keep it from getting hard it should be ok,if not It will cause problems,I bet you never kept the same bulb for 20 some years..
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Old 11-05-2012, 10:43   #22
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Re: In line fuel filter for 2 stroke outboard

I used an aluminum housing for a spin on filter, bolted in the transom of the dingy, the kind with the clear plastic bottom to see the water....
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Old 11-05-2012, 18:27   #23
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Re: In line fuel filter for 2 stroke outboard

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Im not an old wife but it is not gibberish,dosent take a thinking man to realize that an unwanted hole in(a 2 strock) fuel delivery system will cause the fuel and air mixture to change and if it changes and dosent cause a problem why have jet sets,set screws,needle valves and jet set needle valves..lets do an experiment, take a screw driver and tune your carb ,then stick a hole in the primer bulb with said screwdriver, crank the engine and hold it wide open for a few moments, if its an old wives tale it will be ok, if not well you will need to buy a new set of rings ,wrist pin and if the piston gets really hot you will need one of those also.If your jug has a Nikasil coated head you may be able to hone it out ,if not you may need a new jug too....DVC If you maintain the bulb and keep it from getting hard it should be ok,if not It will cause problems,I bet you never kept the same bulb for 20 some years..

I still don't get it.

The fuel goes from the can through the hose (with bulb) to the inlet of the carb. It then goes to the bowl. The bowl has the fuel that the motor sucks on, through the carb jets, to get what it needs.

A little (or a lot) of air in the fuel line will not lean out the mixture getting to the cylinder. The bowl will still be getting fuel. If there is not enough fuel getting to the bowl because the hole in the hose (or bulb) is too big then the motor will slowly (or rapidly) stall out. Just like when I am done with it and disconnect the fuel line and run it till it stalls with wide open throttle. (I coax it along and only end with wide open)

I have always (well for 36yrs anyway) wanted to fly an ultralight though. Just never got there.
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Old 11-05-2012, 18:52   #24
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Re: In line fuel filter for 2 stroke outboard

I think what tropicalscape is talking about are engines with pumper type carbs that don't have bowls. An air leak in the fuel supply to these could cause the engine to run lean. I have to say that I don't see any more leak potential from a squeeze bulb than I do from any other part of the fuel supply system. The whole system needs to be maintained.
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Old 11-05-2012, 21:15   #25
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Re: In line fuel filter for 2 stroke outboard

I have run into several priming bulbs that have developed holes or usually cracks, due to age, which will cause a lack of fuel deliver to the engine carb or carbs bowls, which the carbs will run out of fuel. This could be also in the case of fuel injection high pressure systems too, running out of fuel.
The engine would only be leaned out by the lack of fuel getting thru the metering jets due to stoppage in the fuel circuits or metering jets, going thru the carbs, either in the high speed, or idle circuits. I am only talking about outboard or inboard boat engines, as I do not know anything about aircraft 2 or 4 stroke engines.
Also there is the priming bulbs on carbs of weedeaters and chainsaws, that I can see might be a problem, as there is no real bowl on them, but just a pop off pressure chamber, as in most jetski carbs too.
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Old 11-05-2012, 21:28   #26
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Re: In line fuel filter for 2 stroke outboard

Therapy, HopCar and Chuck49 all are seeing this the same way that I do. For the normal outboards that we are discussing, which employ a float valve and jets to determine the fuel:air ratio, a leak in the priming bulb should do nothing but reduce fuel flow to the float chamber... sorta like running out of fuel. Lots of folks run out of fuel in their dinghies or tinnies, and I've never heard of this causing the disasters mentioned above.

Perhaps aircraft engines do employ some different sort of carburetor, but then we were talking about outboards on boats.

Anyhow, enough on that... one more thing that I have never worried about and likely will not start now.

Cheers,

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Old 12-05-2012, 10:01   #27
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Re: In line fuel filter for 2 stroke outboard

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I think what tropicalscape is talking about are engines with pumper type carbs that don't have bowls. An air leak in the fuel supply to these could cause the engine to run lean. I have to say that I don't see any more leak potential from a squeeze bulb than I do from any other part of the fuel supply system. The whole system needs to be maintained.
You are so right.I goffed.I use a Diaphram type carb just like the weed eater type...No bowl,or external fuel pump.I looked at one of the honda outboard engines I have and they too have that type carb(not the slide type seen on dirt bikes and such)If you have ever ran a 2 stroke out of gas you will notice that just before it cuts off it will go to real high RPMs and then die out ,that is because it is leaning out...a hole in the bulb on a slide type carb would just kill the engine, I think, before any major damage can happen...I think..Im confused now ,think i will go out and tweek some different type carbs to see what happens...wasnt trying to argue ,but you dont see slide carbs on small 2 strokes much..thanks Hopcar...DVC
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:54   #28
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Re: In line fuel filter for 2 stroke outboard

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I just got a pile of gunge out of the carby of my 20hp outboard that had somehow got past the factory gauze filter that is under the engine cowling.

I thought that an inline PRE filter like this

between primer bulb and gauze filter would be a good addition and spoke to an outboard mech. just to check.

He tells me a big no no claiming that the paper filter will suck up the oil changing the oil ratio of the mix.

Anyone heard of this?
Cant really find a definite answer online and feel it may be an old wives tale.
Nah, the oil is dissolved into the gas at the molecular level. The filters micron rating is not anywhere near that small. Also, once the filter element is saturated (with oil and gas) it cannot absorb any more oil.
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:22   #29
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Re: In line fuel filter for 2 stroke outboard

Just a note on primer bulbs... i've been through three Moeller brand bulbs in two years...crack where the bulb narrows (one didn't even last two weeks). I located an Atwood brand bulb and... so far so good. As for the filter issue, I have used a spin-on water/fuel separator for years with no problems (Mariner 8 hp)...more expensive but lasts a long time. These filters are also paper. Unfortunately, no filter can separate ethanol from gas.

cheers,
mm
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Old 12-05-2012, 13:30   #30
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Re: In line fuel filter for 2 stroke outboard

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I think what tropicalscape is talking about are engines with pumper type carbs that don't have bowls. An air leak in the fuel supply to these could cause the engine to run lean. I have to say that I don't see any more leak potential from a squeeze bulb than I do from any other part of the fuel supply system. The whole system needs to be maintained.

So we are peeling an apple with an orange juicer.
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