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Old 04-05-2015, 10:52   #1
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I'm so smart

I own a boat powered by a 3GM30F for the last 6 years. Every spring before the launch, I filled a bucket with water and set the raw water intake into it and ran the engine for a few minutes until the bucket was empty. I refill the bucket and do it again and again until I am confident that I scared all the winter critters out of the engine. This year I thought that I was smarter than to fill and refill buckets. I got a fitting and connected a water hose directly into the raw water intake. I am so smart, I was thinking. Well....

After turning the engine a few seconds without compression, I noticed a strange clear liquid pouring out of the air intake. First, I thought it could be fuel, smelled it. Nope, not fuel. Water. Then it don on me what I just did. I filled the engine cylinders with water. Water ran through the water pump, heat exchanger, elbow mixer, filled the exhaust hose, the exhaust manifold, the cylinders to finally pour out of the air intake manifold.

Also, after checking the oil, it turned out that water got there too.

This was not my proudest sailing moment. I thought then, I must be the dumbest guy in this yard. Well....

After telling this story to 4 different people in the yard, 3 of them had the same thing happening to them and the fourth know somebody who did the same. Strangely, it just happened once to each one of them.

The moral of this story: keep filling up buckets.
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Old 04-05-2015, 11:03   #2
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Re: I'm so smart

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Originally Posted by pierrrre View Post
I own a boat powered by a 3GM30F for the last 6 years. Every spring before the launch, I filled a bucket with water and set the raw water intake into it and ran the engine for a few minutes until the bucket was empty. I refill the bucket and do it again and again until I am confident that I scared all the winter critters out of the engine. This year I thought that I was smarter than to fill and refill buckets. I got a fitting and connected a water hose directly into the raw water intake. I am so smart, I was thinking. Well....

After turning the engine a few seconds without compression, I noticed a strange clear liquid pouring out of the air intake. First, I thought it could be fuel, smelled it. Nope, not fuel. Water. Then it don on me what I just did. I filled the engine cylinders with water. Water ran through the water pump, heat exchanger, elbow mixer, filled the exhaust hose, the exhaust manifold, the cylinders to finally pour out of the air intake manifold.

Also, after checking the oil, it turn out that water got there too.

This was not my proudest sailing moment. I thought then, I must be the dumbest guy in this yard. Well....

After telling this story to 4 different people in the yard, 3 of them had the same thing happening to them and the fourth know somebody who did the same. Strangely, it just happened once to each one of them.

The moral of this story: keep filling up buckets.
Ouch... thanks for sharing. I'll be sure not to do that!
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Old 04-05-2015, 21:08   #3
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Re: I'm so smart

Were you able to get the engine running again? What did you do to fix it?
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Old 05-05-2015, 17:23   #4
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Re: I'm so smart

I first shut off the water. Then I cranked the engine without compression for a while. When I figured the water was all out, I put the compression back on and I started the beast. It started and I ran it for 2 or 3 minutes (one bucket) 3 or 4 times. I shut it off and and hoped that nothing was damage, like a cracked head or head gasket. Turned out, everything is OK. Only the next day, I thought about checking the oil. The nice new oil I had just put in the day before was a nice milky grey. Water is thinner than oil and will run between the cylinder walls and the pistons/rings. To get rid of this watery oil, I did three oil/filter changes running the engine, (two buckets worth...) between each change.

I just ran the engine tonight again and everything seems OK. I am going in the water tomorrow. I was told by several people who did the same thing before and a marine engineer that I work with that everything should be OK but just for piece of mind I will do a final oil change in a couple weeks after the engine has ran for a few hours.
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Old 05-05-2015, 17:48   #5
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Re: I'm so smart

At least it wasn't salt water


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Old 05-05-2015, 17:50   #6
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Re: I'm so smart

I'm glad you were able to recover it quickly. The ones that go "toes up" are the ones that folks wait too long to take any action on.

Well done. I'm glad it was a happy ending to a good learning experience.
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Old 05-05-2015, 18:00   #7
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Re: I'm so smart

Glad to hear it works.

Winterizing an Engine on the Hard (Thanks to Maine Sail) - NEVER connect a hose to your raw water pump inlet - NEVER!!!

Winterizing A Diesel Engine On The Hard - SailboatOwners.com

Tell your friends!

This is the second one of these just this week.
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Old 05-05-2015, 18:42   #8
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Re: I'm so smart

I heard this to be forbidden too - probably in my manual. I use a hose but not hard connected. My water intake line is 1-1/2 inch so I hold the end up & just dribble water in & let it overflow. Only run long enough to make sure the system is primed.
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Old 05-05-2015, 19:15   #9
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Re: I'm so smart

The right way to do it is to put the raw water intake hose and a water supply hose into a bucket. Fill the bucket and start the engine. Then adjust the nozzle on the water supply hose to just replace the water sucked into the engine. Then you can leave the engine running for an extended period of time. Check the bucket every few minutes to make sure the inflow and outflow are still balanced.
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Old 05-05-2015, 19:33   #10
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Re: I'm so smart

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Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
The right way to do it is to put the raw water intake hose and a water supply hose into a bucket. Fill the bucket and start the engine. Then adjust the nozzle on the water supply hose to just replace the water sucked into the engine. Then you can leave the engine running for an extended period of time. Check the bucket every few minutes to make sure the inflow and outflow are still balanced.
Even easier Ziggy-install a tee between seacock & filter.Put a ball valve & length of hose on the off take of tee.
Stick hose in bucket of water as you explained.Close seacock & open t valve.
To winterize,stick hose in gallon of RV antifreeze.
If you like,install a pickup strainer on hose & throw it in bilge for the season & you have an engine driven emerg. bilge pump. /Len
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Old 05-05-2015, 20:08   #11
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Re: I'm so smart

Good idea if you have room.
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Old 06-05-2015, 07:17   #12
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Re: I'm so smart

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Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
Glad to hear it works.

Winterizing an Engine on the Hard (Thanks to Maine Sail) - NEVER connect a hose to your raw water pump inlet - NEVER!!!

Winterizing A Diesel Engine On The Hard - SailboatOwners.com

Tell your friends!

This is the second one of these just this week.
Now, I know it AND I know why. Hopefully, others will read this thread and not do my mistake (which was my goal in starting it).
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Old 06-05-2015, 09:33   #13
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Re: I'm so smart

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
Glad to hear it works.

Winterizing an Engine on the Hard (Thanks to Maine Sail) - NEVER connect a hose to your raw water pump inlet - NEVER!!!

Winterizing A Diesel Engine On The Hard - SailboatOwners.com

Tell your friends!

This is the second one of these just this week.
I read the SailboatOwners.com link provided by Stu.
I was surprised by some of the comments questioning? MainSails method-mostly from folks living outside of the "normal" freezeup areas.
This past winter certainly expanded freezeup to non-traditional areas & going by some posts I saw this winter,perhaps it's time that folks in those areas learned how to winterize.
If done by owner at haulout,it is very cheap.
2-4 gal. of RV (pink) non-toxic antifreeze @ $5/gal will do the avg boat systems.
This RV antifreeze is NON-TOXIC,& is put in RV systems & left there for the winter(after air blowing the fresh water out).

On a boat,it is even easier.No need to air blow existing water out.Your raw water pumps will do that for you,as they suck pure antifreeze from the jug.

Here is how I've done it for years without any problems.(same principals as MaineSail)

Engine-(1) Remove hose from seacock & insert it in jug of RV antifreeze.
Run engine @12-1500 until water coming out exhaust thru hull is all pink.Takes maybe 10-20seconds.
This method leaves pure -40-50F antifreeze throughout your block,heat exchanger,water pump,piping & exhaust system-nothing to freeze.It protects your system from rust & corrosion that could happen in a "drained" system full of air(oxygen)
If you wish to do a fresh water flush first,then place a garden hose in a pail,suck from pail as long as you want,& then change to sucking from RV A/F jug.
( 2) Remove impeller from RW pump to keep it from taking a "set" over winter.
( 3)Leave seacock open,in case there is any residual plain water in it.

In Spring-Re-install impeller with new gasket (or install a Speedseal Kit)
Launch as is or pre-run engine by sucking from hose & pail.
Re-install hose on seacock.

Note: I made it even easier on my boat by installing a bronze tee just before the Groco RW strainer,with bronze ball valve on T & a length of suction hose with strainer that reaches my bilge.
This allows me to close seacock & suck from my bilge in an emergency,BUT mainly,it allows me to winterize by closing seacock,opening T valve,inserting bilge hose in water bucket &/or RV A/F jug.-eliminates removing & re-installing seacock hose.(I'm lazy)

Head-Many heads are not properly winterized by pouring A/F in bowl & pumping it overboard.
You must remove the raw water intake(small) hose,stick it in a gal. of RV A/F, & pump it through.Better still-install a tee & valve in the intake hose,with a length of hose for this purpose.You can even use this hose to suck or add deoderant,vinegar,etc.

Domestic water- (1)Drain all tanks.

(2) Pour a gal. of NON TOXIC RV antifreeze into each tank.

(3) Turn on Hot & Cold taps,one at a time,starting farthest away from tank(s).Each tap turned on long enough to get pure pink a/f.(This also a/f's your drain traps).

Spring-Turn on taps & pump A/F out of system.Re-fill with water as normal.

Refrigeration,A/C- Not familiar with these systems,but if they pump raw water,I'm sure a similar approach will work.

I suggest any boat that is stored on the hard,& definitely any "freezable" boat, have a bronze garboard drain plug ,left open all winter,to prevent rain/snow melt from accumulating & freezing in bilge. Covers can leak or blow off.

General boat- Trapped water & some products will freeze & will expand. Empty all containers & take freezable goods home.Check boat well for any pocket that could hold water.Save a nasty mess in Spring.

Hope these ideas help.
Cheers/Len
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Old 06-05-2015, 10:57   #14
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Re: I'm so smart

Quote:
Originally Posted by pierrrre View Post
Now, I know it AND I know why. Hopefully, others will read this thread and not do my mistake (which was my goal in starting it).
I'm glad you posted this. It makes me so much happier about living here in Hawaii. To winterize we just go sailing.

Just kididng of course. Your post is very instructional.
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Old 07-05-2015, 19:32   #15
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Re: I'm so smart

"Engine-(1) Remove hose from seacock & insert it in jug of RV antifreeze.
Run engine @12-1500 until water coming out exhaust thru hull is all pink.Takes maybe 10-20seconds.
This method leaves pure -40-50F antifreeze throughout your block,heat exchanger,water pump,piping & exhaust system-nothing to freeze."

Would just point out that this is for a fresh water cooled engine. If the engine is raw water cooled you need to either remove the thermostat or get it up to temp in a bucket of fresh water and then while it is still running add in the antifreeze. Otherwise most of the antifreeze is just going to pass through the bypass and go straight out the exhaust without much flowing through the block/head and exhaust manifold.

Shawn
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