Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 17-07-2013, 18:50   #1
Moderator
 
sailorchic34's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Boat: Islander 34
Posts: 4,812
I was Bored so Pulled the Head on my Yanmar

My yanmar 3gm30F engine with 1100 hours on it which has been hard starting for over a year and using oil (approx. 0.8 quarts per 12 hours). I had thought I had resolved it a few times. But it was getting worst and worst. Would only start with #3 decompressed. Plus would sometimes die when going to idle, even after 2 hours running. So annoying when that happens waiting for a bridge to open too.

So today I pulled the head and heat exchanger/manifold off. Lots O fun. So #1 (aft end) had carbon buildup, lots O carbon. #2 and #3 looks clean with a very light carbon dusting that wiped off. The head gasket did not look that bad, but was oil soaked from 9 to 12 o-clock at #1 (far left in photo's), which corresponded to the carbon on the head at #1. Cylinder walls in all three are fine. Can still see cross hatching on the walls.

#3 pre-combustion chamber was lighter then #1 and #2. Have a friend bringing a pop off tester for the injectors tomorrow. So with luck I can fine out if #3 is bad. #3 takes 20-30 seconds once the engine is running and decompression lever released to start firing. But no carbon buildup on #3 at all. I'm thinking #3 injector may be bad/leaking.

Oh I pulled the caps on the heat exchanger and rodded out the tubes. Really was not bad, with only a light buildup towards the middle.

My only concern is rings, as I can't really check them unless I pull my engine out and thats going to be a lot of work. Is there another reason why the head gasket would be oil soaked. BTW the oil galley to the valve train is exterior and connects to the head at #3 at 7 O-clock, which is dry.

So that was my day....
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC02616.jpg
Views:	846
Size:	176.5 KB
ID:	64223   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC02617.jpg
Views:	969
Size:	125.0 KB
ID:	64224  

Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC02615.jpg
Views:	834
Size:	125.5 KB
ID:	64225  
__________________

__________________
sailorchic34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2013, 19:13   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: North Carolina
Boat: Seaward 22
Posts: 691
Re: I was bored so pulled the head on my yanmar

i'm in awe of sailorchic
__________________

__________________
ohdrinkboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2013, 19:44   #3
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
Re: I was bored so pulled the head on my yanmar

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohdrinkboy View Post
i'm in awe of sailorchic
Gimme a break! It was only a three-banger.
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2013, 20:07   #4
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29 49.16 N 82 25.82 W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 12,372
Re: I was bored so pulled the head on my yanmar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash View Post
Gimme a break! It was only a three-banger.
Yea! I've got a four cylinder she can try. Lets see if she can move up to the big leagues.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2013, 20:10   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 11
Re: I was bored so pulled the head on my yanmar

I'm in awe, too. SailorChic is smart, and smart people rock.
__________________
miketo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2013, 20:12   #6
Registered User
 
lonesoldier0408's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2013
Boat: Luger, Southwind, 21
Posts: 356
Re: I was bored so pulled the head on my yanmar

The problems you describe seem to be due to either worpage or surface prep from the previous work performed on the engine. Torque specs should be followed closely on re-assembly. Also worpage of the head should be milled out. Although accessive wear to the block caused by assembly prep is possible, it is unlikely. Although I have heard others talk of installing two head-gaskets, I don't recomend this, nor have I ever seen it. Try to determine if the seapage is on the head or block side of the head gasket and work that part.
__________________
lonesoldier0408 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2013, 20:15   #7
Registered User

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Boat: 40' Silverton Aftcabin with twin Crusaders
Posts: 1,589
Re: I was bored so pulled the head on my yanmar

Hey!! Good for you Chick! And another 'ATTAGIRL' for rodding out the heat exchanger. That works, found that the radiator shop technique did not clean anything other than remove paint from my heat exchangers.
__________________
foggysail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2013, 20:34   #8
Moderator
 
Boracay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Pelican Bay, Great Sandy National Park
Boat: Steel Roberts Offshore 44
Posts: 5,175
Images: 18
Re: I was bored so pulled the head on my yanmar

In the good old days heads needed to be torqued twice. Initially and then after run in.

When you replace the head check if this is something you should do.
__________________
Rust never sleeps
Boracay Blog.
Boracay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2013, 20:44   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Montegut LA.
Boat: Now we need to get her to Louisiana !! she's ours
Posts: 3,421
Re: I was bored so pulled the head on my yanmar

SailorChic, be sure to have the head cked for flatness! resurface if needed! never use 2 gaskets ever! It looks to me that your on the right track with that injector! and I believe from the pics that the head needs surfaceing! but that means little LOL please ck it !! If you dont have a torque lay out for that head, just start in the middle and work your way out counterclock wise! always works for me! Let us know how things work out! also do you have a flat level and some feeler gauges? if ya do you can ck the head yourself !! have fun!you have more guts then many on here LOL
__________________
Bob and Connie
bobconnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2013, 20:58   #10
Registered User
 
sy_gilana's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: On board
Boat: Van de Stadt 50'
Posts: 1,101
Send a message via Skype™ to sy_gilana
Re: I was bored so pulled the head on my yanmar

Agree with all others to check flatness.
Did you do a compression check before?
IF injectors test out well, you're worried about rings but don't want to pull the crank, an experiment might show up a difference between cylinders. You are going to change the oil anyway. Get the 3 pistons exactly to the same height. Pour in exactly the same amount of diesel, say 50cc. Leave overnight. If levels are similar in morning leave as is, if there is difference, pull the crankshaft.
The carbon build up is a result of incomplete combustion. This can be due to air restriction coming in, exhaust restriction going out, loss of compression, or excess fuel. Do a valve job while you're headless. Get the head crack - tested, and give it a surface grind anyway, but check the block for flatness. I would blue it. Good luck.
__________________
Tight sheets to ya.
http://gilana.org
sy_gilana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2013, 21:35   #11
Registered User
 
cheoah's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North Carolina, USA
Boat: Moccasins and pony
Posts: 996
Re: I was bored so pulled the head on my yanmar

Nice work! Hope you find something conclusive, and agree it is worth going over as much as you can while its out.

Thanks for pics and look forward to updates
__________________
cheoah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2013, 21:53   #12
Moderator
 
sailorchic34's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Boat: Islander 34
Posts: 4,812
Re: I was bored so pulled the head on my yanmar

I did an eyeball check for flatness on the head this afternoon with a piece of angle aluminum extrusion. I was too pooped this afternoon to find the feeler gauges. I'll get my feeler gauges out tomorrow is check for flatness of the head and block. I think I have two (well at least two issues) with the engine. #3 has a delayed firing, like its not getting fuel. Possible bad injector. #1 has carbon, but is it head or rings.

The head gasket was soaked at that end, where as the rest of the head gasket was dry as a bone. OH I was wrong about the oil connection to the head. It is at 10 o-clock at #3, right where the oil on the gasket is. Thing is the connection is at the top of the head and I don't think there is a pass thru to the bottom edge of the head, but maybe there is. no coolant in oil or vise versa. #2 is the cylinder that's still fine and runs. I will do the oil in the cylinder trick for sure.

I do have the yanmar manuals and torque sequences. I believe that heads should be retorqued and pretty sure this engine never was. BTW, this is the first tear down on the head, since yanmar built it.

Oh I've done a complete rebuild of a inline 6 as well as a few 4 cylinders. But this is my first diesel tear down.

I was really surprised at how clean #2 and #3 were. Before the photo of the head, I just did a very light wipe with a cloth to #2 & #3 domes. #1 on the other hand needed to be scraped clean of carbon, mainly on the oil galley side of the head.

I should note that I could hear a tone (noise) from the engine when it was idling. I think I read somewhere/ sometime that that was a possible sign of a bad head gasket.
__________________
sailorchic34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2013, 22:16   #13
Moderator
 
sailorchic34's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Boat: Islander 34
Posts: 4,812
Re: I was bored so pulled the head on my yanmar

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobconnie View Post
you have more guts then many on here LOL
Not so much guts as an amazing lack of funds, So I have to do it myself. Luckily my dad taught me a thing or two about engines.

I should mention that I did not get a compression check done. With a 1/2 quart of oil used every 5 hours of motoring and the hard starting, I knew I had compression and or fuel issues.

I did show the head gasket to a master mechanic and his option was it had to be rings. Which I really don't like to hear. Its going to be a royal you know what, pulling the engine out (its a V drive).. Oh not that bad, gee half the engine is apart already. But it will be annoying if I pull the pistons and find the rings in spec.
__________________
sailorchic34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2013, 23:17   #14
Senior Cruiser
 
roverhi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kona, Hawaii, Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1969 Pearson 35 #108 & 1976 Sabre 28
Posts: 6,003
Send a message via Yahoo to roverhi
Re: I was bored so pulled the head on my yanmar

The GM30 is a pretty light diesel. Pulled mine with transmission using a come along and 4x4 over the companionway. Pulled it out by myself but took two people to push it back in and drop it onto the mounts. Set it on the sole on a piece of scrap plywood. Was able to slide it around without too much difficulty to get at it from all sides. Even lighter if you take it out without the V drive.

My engine was fine but the PO's installation to replace an A4 was crap. Engine was so far out of line it ate stern bearings in less than a 100 hours and was about a foot farther forward jutting into the galley than the A4. Had to carve away at the engine beds and relocate the mounts to move it back into the engine space and out of the galley. Took it out and put it back in at least 5 times trying to get clearance for flywheel and bell housing and proper height for the beds so it would align.

Since you've got the head off, would definitely have a machine shop check out the head for flatness and mill if necessary, replace the valve guides and do a valve job. Should cost well less than a boat unit to have that done. Two head gaskets with decrease the compression significantly and is a no no without miling the head to take off a corresponding amount of medal to compensate for the extra head gasket. Even then, don't know how it would work with the high compression of a diesel. It would be a last resort fix in utter desperation if you had to do it.

If the cylinder walls show no sign of wear, highly doubtful that the rings are a problem. Rings usually quit ceiling because the cylinder bores get ovaled by wear. With only 1100 hours on the engine would be wiling to bet your problem is an injector or injector pump problem if there are no other issues with the head. The engine may be fed oil externally but it falls back to the sump through the head and block. If the gasket was soaked in oil, could have been a problem with the gasket. Not completely out of the realm of possibility that an oil passage was not cut out properly on the gasket, BTDT. Assume the cylinder seals on the gasket did not show signs of gas leaks.

New style head gaskets usually don't require or is retorqueing reccomended after initial installation. They seal properly on installation torqueing and can be deformed by retorqueing and shorten the life. after run in. The original style gaskets on Series Landrovers were copper and required retorquing after run in. New gaskets are a composite material with metal insert seals around the cylinders, etc. Retorqueing verbotten on the new style. Check with Yanmar for their reccomendations.
__________________
Peter O.
'Ae'a Pearson 35
roverhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-07-2013, 05:12   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 23
Re: I was bored so pulled the head on my yanmar

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorchic34 View Post
but is it head or rings
What you SHOULD have done is do a compression test BEFORE pulling the head...
__________________

__________________
Navatech is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
head, yanmar

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Yanmar 4LH/HTE Head Gasket Replacement terrymccann Engines and Propulsion Systems 8 09-01-2012 22:32
Blown Head Gasket on Yanmar 4JH ? Conch Cruzer Engines and Propulsion Systems 11 13-11-2011 23:36
Want To Buy: Cylinder Head for Yanmar petercreese Classifieds Archive 0 06-10-2011 20:09



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:58.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.