How much should I budget to replace an engine?

[hhmsailor]

Look at the newer Yanmars. They are about 7-8k and probably the same amount for all the other parts that you will need (hoses, motor mounts, etc etc.

[Mithril Bham]

A lot.

[SailingFan]

OK, I can offer some in person info on this one. My Hunter 27 (1978) has a Yanmar SB8, and it looks like the original unit. The PO could not start the Yanmar, and someone before him pulled the starter because it failed somehow. I got the vessel with sails, standing rigging in place, running rigging hardware only in a plastic shopping bag (no running rigging lines), the Coast Guard required stuff for safety, no stove in the galley, a brand new microwave and dorm fridge, a battery charger (not a marine one), a battery with a dead cell, a winch handle, a crank handle for the engine, and most of the cushions. No toilet in the head, and the vessel never had a holding tank installed (though the bolt holes from the manual head are there). In addition, the PO had installed a bracket on the transom and added an 8 HP (matches the stated HP of the Yanmar, actually) outboard of recent vintage.

The cost for this deal was just over $2,000. The outboard constituted a large part of the value, as the internal hull had been stripped of covering material, and though solid, was covered in spider cracked and powdered gelcoat and there was three inches of barnacle and sponge growth on the hull underside. Additionally, the alternator was kaput. With further investment/cost, I added a new starter and alternator. Cabinetry was intact as was counter tops. The table needed a new folding leg hinge. The built-in icebox chest was good, but needs more insulation to hold ice for long.

Additionally, the mast step is soft on the cabin top. Not horribly so, but any is too much in my book, so I have to pull the mast and remedy that. Add cost of a crane or some sort of other device creation to lift my 35.5 foot mast, repair the base, reinstall and tune rigging, install running rigging lines and hardware, plus wiring while the mast is down, replace spreader lights and tricolor, install windex, and put boots on spreader tips.

Now, if I had replaced the engine outright with new, I would have had a Beta at about 14 or 16 HP for another +-$12K US, according to the local Yanmar authorized dealer (who sold Betas as well). PLUS labor if he did the installation...

If I did that, I would be into the vessel for someplace near $15K US or so PLUS labor of installing the engine in a vessel that STILL needed perhaps another $3K US in work and parts to be complete. So that makes it a $18K US proposition. If I sold her at that point, I MIGHT get $10K in this area, maybe less. In fact, due to age, likely less, maybe $8K, now I know all that is going on (and I have not accounted for internal wiring yet, either, nor chartplotter or radar, though the VHF is there and works fine). I did purchase a depth finder, a cheap one, essentially a fish finder that also gave bottom depth.

So, if I had cash to do all this the hard way quickly (which I don't) this could turn into THE boat if space was not critical internally. However, it would mean I had to commit to THIS boat alone until I amortized the use out of it. A possible eventuality, but consider the other option, had I the cash to do it at once.

I could have instead paid this same amount or less for a newer, more complete, or mint identical model and maybe even had the electronics on board already.

I did what I did because I am essentially poor, and am attempting to reach up to sailing while not becoming entirely homeless in the process of getting the boat done. I will eventually get her done, though, and have a thorough knowledge of all her systems, learn her quirks, and will have a solid idea of what becomes a nice to have versus a must have in our REAL boat, when I hopefully will be in better position to shell out the cash to handle a boat I can get for $20K US or more.

So there are pluses to buying a well floating solid hand laid glass hulled tank like mine with a motor that did not run at inspection, but there are also minuses, and if I was not one who knew how to repair the majority of her issues, I would have passed on her for another model, something simpler and smaller for the same money to piddle about on. That was my intent anyway when I started looking, but the Admiral would not have a smaller one because she was afraid I would tell her we were moving on board and that she would not be able to take her cats with us, thinking also that cabin fever would set in too quickly, and she surely was not going to live on a boat and relieve herself in a luggable loo...

Now, the problem with the engine seems to have been a broken valve spring, thus lack of compression, but for about ten bucks I replaced both springs (there are only two valves), and there is a GOB of compression now. I was going to bleed the line today and start her up, but I am a bit under the weather again, so had to stay in bed today.

You could instead of this, if you did not have money for a vessel with a running engine, get one without, sell whatever motor is in there for parts money, get electronics and spares with the returns, and install an outboard on a bracket, keeping aware of how it will behave if the boat is in severe chop or encountering severe wakes (the prop may come clear of the water). Just make sure the outboard is powerful enough to get you from point A to point B on less than absolute calm water in an efficient manner without overloading the transom. I would also heartily suggest some sort of backing plates for the mounts if you get too terribly large on the outboard, and also I would suggest that you want the longest shaft length you can get for it to keep the prop in the water and the power head OUT of the water when it gets severely choppy if your hull has the tendency to hobbyhorse around a bit.

So, consider this all before you elect to purchase a dead engine wrapped in a sailboat (I like that evaluation, I will steal it for personal use if the poster who offered it does not mind, it is CLEVER!). If working on the boat turns you on, and if you have a means to trickle money into it but none to outright buy what you really want (or are unsure of really WHAT you want or whether you will like to sail even), I would suggest getting something that is very inexpensive so that you can bracket on an outboard and get going on fair weather days, but remember, my main is something like $900, and the Jib is $800 (or is that the other way around), so the sails have to be good too! I am going to have to make my own storm sail though, because it is also costly, but am considering hitting eBay and Craig's List for sails from smaller boats to make smaller jibs and mains from...

I also spent about 90 bucks a gallon for bottom paint, using about 2 1/2 gallons or so to redo the bottom, and at 30 bucks a gallon I painted the sides of the hull with polyurethane gloss porch paint. We shall see how well it holds up. Take a look at my avatar, that is close to what she looks like at this moment in time externally.

We shall see how it goes...

[Jdege]

I asked this question because I'm about two years out from buying a boat, and I've been watching the markets for possibles so that when the time comes I have some idea as to what is feasible.

Given my finances, a new boat is it of the question, and while it's certainly possible that a boat that exactly meets my need will show up on the market, in perfect working order, at a price I can meet, it seems a bit much to hope for.

What I'm looking for is a filter I can use to narrow down the possibles.

Suppose, for example, I have a budget of $60,000, and I see a 40-year-old boat that looks, from the online listing, to be much like what I'm looking for, priced at $40,000. Can I eliminate it immediately, because there is zero chance that I could get it running under budget? Or is it worth paying for a survey, etc.?

It's sounding to me as if there isn't a simple answer as to the costs of getting a 40-year-old marine diesel into working order. It may work fine, and have years out thousands of hours left in her. It may need a moderately expensive rebuild. It may need a very expensive replacement. There's no way to tell without inspecting the engine in question.

It's beginning to sound to me as if I intend to take a boat cruising wherever the mood strikes, I need to learn a bit about maintaining diesel engines.

But that sounds like a topic for a different thread.

[Lepke]

Unless you're buying a derelict, usually the current owner gets the engine running. And just because an engine is old or been sitting doesn't mean it needs an overhaul.
If you're a mechanic, it's always cheaper to rebuild an engine than replace it. In the off season, in a port that caters to work boats, it still would be cheaper to rebuild if you had it done. If you paid to attend a diesel engine school and then rebuilt the engine it would be cheaper than a new engine.
When you install a new engine, existing costly things may not fit the new engine. Things like the shaft, prop, engine beds, wiring, plumbing and so on.
Almost all marine diesels have parts available. Many yacht marine diesels have tractor and industrial equivalents. Same engine, no marine parts. My mains were made in 1947. Parts are no problem. I expect these engines to be running long after I'm gone.
Old engines don't have new electronics controlling combustion. So no circuit boards, electronic sensors, and so on to fail in the middle of nowhere.
If you have an excess of money than a new engine is probably your best choice.

[CarinaPDX]

Originally Posted by Jdege

Suppose, for example, I have a budget of $60,000, and I see a 40-year-old boat that looks, from the online listing, to be much like what I'm looking for, priced at $40,000. Can I eliminate it immediately, because there is zero chance that I could get it running under budget? Or is it worth paying for a survey, etc.?

It is always worth paying for a survey, unless you are capable of doing one yourself. There are just too many ways a boat can lose value that a non-expert may not notice. [Edit: Keep in mind it is perfectly possible to find a boat that has negative value!]

I would consider a boat costing $40k that would be worth $60k with a re-engine, if everything else was good and I wanted that boat. But if it wasn't just what I wanted then I'd move along. Just depends...

Greg

[UNCIVILIZED]

One thing probably as yet to be mentioned is that if you're pulling an engine, it often pays to be fluent in fiberglass. Since on a good percentage of boats you actually save time & labor if you zip out part of the cockpit prior to trying to pull the engine. It can make access light-centuries better. Especially if you'll be doing things like rebuilding/building new engine beds in sections of the boat which are ususally inaccessable. Sounds radical, but in essence that's how the engine, & it's support systems & structures got in there in the first place. Meaning prior to the deck & cockpit going onto the hull. So it's worth a think if a major engine-ectomy is in the works. Especially if you'd only be pulling out a square or rectangular section of the cockpit floor.

[Jdege]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

It is always worth paying for a survey, unless you are capable of doing one yourself. There are just too many ways a boat can lose value that a non-expert may not notice. [Edit: Keep in mind it is perfectly possible to find a boat that has negative value!]

I'd not consider buying a boat without a survey, but when I see 100+ boats on the market that meet my specs, I wouldn't dream of paying for a survey on all of them.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Jdege

I'd not consider buying a boat without a survey, but when I see 100+ boats on the market that meet my specs, I wouldn't dream of paying for a survey on all of them.

What size boat are you looking for?

Where will you be sailing it?

Weekend warrior or long time/long distance cruiser.

Lots of folks seem to buy more boat than they need for many different reasons though, but it's all up to the buyer of course.

I didn't get a survey on my good old boat, but it's a Bristol which says something. It was still a roll of the dice. The boat is now 42 years old.

I'd owned 12 or so boats before buying this one though which helped but it was still taking a chance going without a survey.

I've made about every mistake you can make buying boats starting at age 17 but it wasn't big money involved. Well, it was big money to me at the time ..........

You might also want to visit your local boatyards and see what repairs are being done to which boats. If you love boats like most of us here, it's quite enjoyable. Plus, you are near the water

[zeehag]

1400n hours is nothing. westerbeke is similar to perkins. perkins is a good workhorse. if you have 20 thousand usdollars, by all means get a yanmar which will not last as long as a westy or perkie. have fun. perkins and westy parts are available world wide. yanmar are difficult to find in many areas.
you have yet to buy the boat?
might want to research engines well and then learn how to repair em. is a big part of your boat to be.

ps when my perkins played runaway diesel on me. i was able to find FREE a westerbeke 107. so
considering the engine is a large part of your boat, which is a better deal--workhorse tractor engine--i rebuilt my perkins 108 for under 4000 usd completely. the transportation logistics for the 107 was prohibitive, as it was in mazatlan. my friend got 400 usd for it.hahahahaha
th epoint being---YOU may not think these old engines re worth a **** but they are good honest workhorses.

[boatman61]

Check out the prices for a marinised John Deere.. great engines and cheap parts, filters and oils (own brand) available anywhere in the world they use tractors.

[Jdege]

Originally Posted by thomm225

What size boat are you looking for?

Where will you be sailing it?

Weekend warrior or long time/long distance cruiser.

Lots of folks seem to buy more boat than they need for many different reasons though, but it's all up to the buyer of course.

I don't have plans, at this point, I have vague intentions.

I'm in Minneapolis, and personal circumstances prevent me from buying a boat until summer, 2018.

What I vaguely intend is to buy a boat I could live aboard, and keeping it around Green Bay or Duluth, for a couple of years. Neither is exactly a short drive, but either is manageable.

During the season, I'd plan spending time on with it on the lakes, learning how to handle it, etc, It'd have to be pulled for the off season, and that seems like a perfect time to deal with any major issues that might be needed.

I'm assuming that an older boat might need new rigging, a new engine, updated electronics, etc.

After a few seasons on the lake, if I decide to keep following the path, I'd take it down to the Gulf and get it ready for salt water. I'd hope, by then, that all that would be needed would be bottom paint. Then where? Who knows. Florida and the Caribbean for a start.

So what I'm looking at is something in the 32-37 foot range, on the upper great lakes, that is in day-sailable condition that could be updated to be a live-aboard cruiser.

Currently, I'm taking classes, spending time on the water with a local sailing club, etc.

After this thread, I'm seriously considering spending some time learning about diesel maintenance and repair. But that's another thread.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Jdege

I don't have plans, at this point, I have vague intentions.

I'm in Minneapolis, and personal circumstances prevent me from buying a boat until summer, 2018.

What I vaguely intend is to buy a boat I could live aboard, and keeping it around Green Bay or Duluth, for a couple of years. Neither is exactly a short drive, but either is manageable.

During the season, I'd plan spending time on with it on the lakes, learning how to handle it, etc, It'd have to be pulled for the off season, and that seems like a perfect time to deal with any major issues that might be needed.

I'm assuming that an older boat might need new rigging, a new engine, updated electronics, etc.

After a few seasons on the lake, if I decide to keep following the path, I'd take it down to the Gulf and get it ready for salt water. I'd hope, by then, that all that would be needed would be bottom paint. Then where? Who knows. Florida and the Caribbean for a start.

So what I'm looking at is something in the 32-37 foot range, on the upper great lakes, that is in day-sailable condition that could be updated to be a live-aboard cruiser.

Currently, I'm taking classes, spending time on the water with a local sailing club, etc.

After this thread, I'm seriously considering spending some time learning about diesel maintenance and repair. But that's another thread.

Sounds like a good plan and the best part is that you aren't planning to cross oceans on day one.

So, if you sail on the lake you may be able to sail the boat for a season or two before putting lots of money in it.

I've yet to replace the rigging on my boat. Here's good advice also:

this from James Baldwin Atom Voyages - Good Old Boats List

I got the idea for my boat from this guy's good old boat list and because I liked old full keel boats


A final word of advice to the novice sailor - resist the temptation to undertake a major refit and extensive modifications on your new old boat right at the start. It's best to make only the obvious repairs needed and go out and sail locally and on some coastal vacation passages to learn exactly what is and what is not needed for you. Otherwise you may end up spending years and many thousands of dollars more than expected modifying your boat and then find out on your first ocean crossing that the boat is not right for you or those great ideas you had during the refurbishment did not work out that well at sea.

[Scout 30]

A final word of advice to the novice sailor - resist the temptation to undertake a major refit and extensive modifications on your new old boat right at the start. It's best to make only the obvious repairs needed and go out and sail locally and on some coastal vacation passages to learn exactly what is and what is not needed for you. Otherwise you may end up spending years and many thousands of dollars more than expected modifying your boat and then find out on your first ocean crossing that the boat is not right for you or those great ideas you had during the refurbishment did not work out that well at sea.[/QUOTE]

[Scout 30]

I think the best idea is to look for a boat that's already been repowered.