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Old 09-05-2011, 13:10   #16
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Re: How Do I Change My Oil ?

Yeah, I guess I'll just have to see if I can reach underneath and find a drain plug. I stuck my camera under the engine and tried to take a photo, but that didn't show a drain plug. I assume there is one there somewhere, but I wonder when it was last removed and if it can even be removed at this point. Maybe it's corroded. Ah, the joys of boat ownership...
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Old 14-05-2011, 21:04   #17
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Re: How Do I Change My Oil ?

To drain your oil the first time assuming there is a drain plug under your engine at the lowest point. Start by getting an aluminum turkey pan from the grocery store, at least a 2 gallon wet and dry vac. Start off by drying your bilge with a wet and dry vac. Next figure out how to get the drain plug out. Next loosen drain plug so that you can turn it with your fingers. Next to push the turkey pan under the engine so that it will catch the oil, you will most probably have to bend it around to sort of fit the bilge. Next it a wet and dry vacuum cleaner imposition to suck out the pan, removed the drain plug. I am of course assuming that the oil pan would not hold more than about 1 gallon of oil. Now as someone else suggested taking oil drain plug and get a 90 fitting that will fit in the drain pan. From this point the need to find a place to mount a dipstick. You will eventually wind up with a hose running from the 90 fitting to the bottom of the dipstick and with a little ingenuity you can also set it up to pump your oil out. As someone else said you'll need to mark the new dipstick with a high level marker most probably 1 quart apart. For a dipstick and tubing you might want to try a dipstick and the tube from the automatic transmission usually you can pull them out.

On another note 1 of the local boat assist companies takes old Freon containers with an adapter hose to fit the container hooks it to do a vacuum source from their car lets the vacuum build, shuts off the valve than sticks a tube down in a dipstick tube to get oil out of the engine. To get the oil out they just pressurize it from us air compressor turn it upside down and seek a hose and a bucket. Just a thought, Mike
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Old 15-05-2011, 11:41   #18
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Re: How Do I Change My Oil ?

flatlander, if you do find a drain plug under the pan?

Hunting suppliers (gun shops, even WalMart) and farm supply shops sell disposable plastic "gloves" that come up to the shoulder. For birthing livestock or butchering game. One of those WILL keep your arm clean even if you have to unscrew the drain plug and hold it to prevent losing it in oil.

Apparently drain plugs are frowned upon in boats, because even the remote possibility of loss (they do sometimes work loose) could result in engine failure AND oil discharge, so they're not too common.

If you do find one, and it is not very accessible, it often can be replaced with one that has a petcock or valve in it, allow you to screw on a drain hose before flipping it open, so there's no need to play "Where's Waldo?" finding the plug in a pan full of oil.

I've also found there are disposable aluminum roadting pans in several sizes and shapes, that easily "cursh to fit" and hold 6+ quarts of oil. Makes a good drain pan when nothing else can fit, costs about $1-2.

Once you get the dipstick mystery solved--the hand-pumped vacuum pumps that go into the dispstick work VERY nicely. Still gotta bag up the oily hose they use, but overall they work very nicely when there's no drain plug.
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Old 15-05-2011, 12:11   #19
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Re: How Do I Change My Oil ?

The diagram posted early in the thread shows a drain plug is there.

I still think a flat pan of some type could be bent and conformed to get under there somehow. Then used to direct outflow to its corner maybe, where an attached hose of some kind could route the oil to a collection point loser in the bilge where a deeper container could be utilized.

That's my take, given the available info.
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Old 15-05-2011, 12:33   #20
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pirate Re: How Do I Change My Oil ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cabo_sailor View Post
Flatlander,
I would also find out who did the installation so that I would know who never to use. Because someone was lazy you have a multi-thousand dollar engine in jeopardy. Without a dipstick you can't monitor oil level (can you say seized engine) or look for contaminants such as water in the oil.

I'll bet lots of people here have disagreed with my opinions in the past, which is good, but I don't think there will be anyone that thinks its OK to have no oil dipstick. Keep us up to date.

Good luck, I'm afraid you might need it

Rich
Hi... a Waquiez I delivered had a Westerbeake with no dip stick... it did however have a pressure gadget that when you squeezed and released gave a red or green reading... at least we assumed it was for the oil as we never managed to get the engine going for more than 30sec's.....
Ended up using an 8hp O/B for the trip... Westerbeakes getting a rebuild...
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Old 12-07-2011, 10:55   #21
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Re: How Do I Change My Oil ?

Thanks for all of the advice. I have attempted to change the oil. I was going to try putting a pan under and draining it, then maybe a banjo bolt. See photo of the oil pan, there is absolutely no room (see photo). My arm became stuck when I was reaching around down there for the oil drain plug, and were the engine not so dirty and oily, maybe I would still be there.

I tried taking off the oil filter (which in itself was more difficult than it should have been), and I tried sucking the oil out of both of the tubes that go to the oil filter (it's not mounted on the block).

So, I succeeded in changing the oil filter.

Then I discovered that the old oil dip stick, which appeared to be sealed off, actually was covered with a bolt, and silicone caulk, which I was able to pry off.
Tthe bolt where the dip stick should be is shown by the arrow in the second photo.

I stuck a tube down there and tried to pull out the oil, but to no avail. I only succeeded in making noises like a straw at the bottom of an empty cup of ice.

So, I rationalized, maybe the engine is out of oil completely. Although it does run. So I put 5 quarts of oil in the top. After waiting some time, I was still unable to suck out any oil from the dip stick hole in the oil drain pan.

Here are my possible conclusions:

1) the engine has zero quarts of oil in it. Somehow all of the oil might have leaked out through some unknown hole into the bilge. Not likely since the engine didn't seize, and I didn't see 5 quarts of oil in the bilge.

2) the engine has 5 quarts of oil in it, and I was lucky that it didn't seize up before, and I'll need to figure out where all of that oil went next time I want to change the oil since it doesn't appear to be in the oil pan.

3) the engine has 10 quarts of oil in it. Is this even possible? Would it run with this much oil in it?


I'm stumped, so lets take a survey. Who votes for 1, 2, or 3? Personally I'm leaning toward 2.
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Old 12-07-2011, 11:01   #22
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Re: How Do I Change My Oil ?

shoot--most folks i know presume there isno drain pug and pump the oil out of the engine with a manual or electric pump. then they change filters and add new oil.
my old red westerfreke 4-107 had no drain plug--just a huge hole in the block and oil went EVERYWHERE. your bilge looks like mine did before i changed out my engine. the new engne (perkins 4-108)seemed to ditch all its oil after receiving 5 qts. that , thank gods, has been repaired so the machine keeps her oil inside her. ther eis still no oil drain plug-- the oil needs to be pumped out .... godluck.
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Old 12-07-2011, 11:20   #23
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Re: How Do I Change My Oil ?

flatlander-
"oil filter (it's not mounted on the block)."
That's called a remote, or remote-mounted, oil filter. I don't know if that's stock for your engine, some folks add it in order to get better access.
The filter being hard to take off, sounds like age and maintenance. I'd wipe the threads down with a terry towel and some solvent (kerosene, wd40) until they are clean. Forgive me if you know this, when you change a filter you shold always rub a little new oil on the gasket that's on the filter (make sure there's no old one stuck on the mount) and if necessary on the threads. And of course, just hand-tighten without using your full strength.

"the old oil dip stick, which appeared to be sealed off, actually was covered with a bolt, and silicone caulk," Could be they broke off the usual metal tube but if you actually found a dip stick in there? I'd wonder why.

Dunno about your 0-5-10 question, but I'd try to find a manual for that engine, with illustrations. Or ask a shop that's familiar with them, since someone must know exactly how you can get the oil out of it. Too much is not good, the camshaft aerates the oil and it won't lube properly. Too little, even worse. There's always SOME way to get some type of tube (bent, straight, thin, something specific) own into the pan far enough to suck out most of the oil. Easiest way to find that, will be to find someone who's had success at it before.

Again, a drain plug is not normal on boat engines. It would violate some regulations designed to prevent oil from dumping in the bilge and being pumped out. But you can bet there's a way to change the oil. And the need to check the level, too.
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Old 12-07-2011, 15:36   #24
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Re: How Do I Change My Oil ?

It's interesting that the diagram in post 4 shows a drain plug as item 2. Yet your first picture above shows the surface where that plug should be located, though it's not there. Looks like you have no plug regardless of what the diagram shows.

The arrow in the second photo shows where the dipstick tube entered the oil pan originally. When the bolt/silicone was removed I would have expected the oil level to be very near the opening.

Not sure where the oil went, but I agree that it must not have had much if any oil in the engine.

I assume you re-plugged the hole and then added five quarts of oil. And I think you have approximately five quarts in the engine now.

I would consider adding a tube of some type back to the oil pan and mark a dipstick at the level of oil present just after filling with the proper quantity. Use whatever you can make fit the space and mark it as needed to create a reference for the future.

And I thought my v drive configuration was hard to access.

Best of luck.
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Old 12-07-2011, 16:13   #25
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I have a drain plug that has been reconnected with a piece of hose to the top of the engine and a gate valve. Just connect a pump to the valve when you want to change the oil and start pumping. . Same for the transmission oil Although it is a marinised diesel. Ford lehmann.
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Old 12-07-2011, 17:05   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeehag
shoot--most folks i know presume there isno drain pug and pump the oil out of the engine with a manual or electric pump. then they change filters and add new oil.
my old red westerfreke 4-107 had no drain plug--just a huge hole in the block and oil went EVERYWHERE. your bilge looks like mine did before i changed out my engine. the new engne (perkins 4-108)seemed to ditch all its oil after receiving 5 qts. that , thank gods, has been repaired so the machine keeps her oil inside her. ther eis still no oil drain plug-- the oil needs to be pumped out .... godluck.
Zee has it right again

I just changed mine the other day. Drain plug is inaccessable. Got a nice little Pella oil pump made specifically for pumping oil out of the dipstick hole. Worked like a charm...

You could use one of the cheaper hand pumps you find at west marine or even harbor freight ( same pump) and do just as good. You might not get 100% of it out, but you should do fine. I got almost all mine out pumping out of the dipstick and the place you put the into.

Drain plugs are for cars and boats with an engine room.
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