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Old 22-08-2017, 15:40   #1
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How about 20% ethanol in your gas?

It could happen, unless we try to stop it...

Boat US - Fix the Renewable Fuel Standard - Add Your Voice Sign the Petition

If wrecking your boat's engine isn't enough to make you not like the stuff... It's basically just a handout to big agriculture that's been green-washed. There's nothing environmentally friendly about using a food crop for fuel...
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Old 22-08-2017, 16:08   #2
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Re: How about 20% ethanol in your gas?

The thought of pouring potential food into my gas tank is pretty horrifying. Alot of people depend on corn for their basic diet. Doesn't make me feel good as an American.
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Old 22-08-2017, 16:23   #3
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Re: How about 20% ethanol in your gas?

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The thought of pouring potential food into my gas tank is pretty horrifying. Alot of people depend on corn for their basic diet. Doesn't make me feel good as an American.


Or even subsidizing the farming of the corn so we can then pay for the fuel again....
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Old 22-08-2017, 16:24   #4
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Re: How about 20% ethanol in your gas?

This article is a few years old, but it explains the environmental issues surrounding it quite thoroughly.

It's Final -- Corn Ethanol Is Of No Use

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesco.../#6d6768f267d3
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Old 22-08-2017, 16:46   #5
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Re: How about 20% ethanol in your gas?

Years ago I had a friend who was an analyst for a beltway lobbying firm, and he specialized in energy issues. He said very flatly that ethanol in fuel was nothing more than an agricultural subsidy and made no sense whatsoever from any other perspective.

That said, I don't think BoatUS is going to have much of an impact on this issue. This is much, much bigger than what grassroots advocacy can overturn.
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Old 22-08-2017, 16:54   #6
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Re: How about 20% ethanol in your gas?

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Years ago I had a friend who was an analyst for a beltway lobbying firm, and he specialized in energy issues. He said very flatly that ethanol in fuel was nothing more than an agricultural subsidy and made no sense whatsoever from any other perspective.

That said, I don't think BoatUS is going to have much of an impact on this issue. This is much, much bigger than what grassroots advocacy can overturn.

Yep. Unfortunately, I think you're correct.
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Old 22-08-2017, 16:59   #7
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Re: How about 20% ethanol in your gas?

Must admit to not doing my own research on it but my understanding here in Australia we primarily use the remnants (mostly waste) from sugar production to produce ethanol. I assume the same would apply with the corn - using the plant not the head ?
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Old 22-08-2017, 17:02   #8
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Re: How about 20% ethanol in your gas?

It's not waste corn that's used in the US. One of the major problems with ethanol is deforestation - clearing land to farm corn for ethanol.
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Old 22-08-2017, 17:06   #9
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Re: How about 20% ethanol in your gas?

A guy I know sells and repairs small engine implements. He says ethanol is great for his business.

I live in Iowa. The few farmers I've talked to hate the ethon policies. They would rather grow what they want based on a free market rather than have their crop dictated to them by government policy.
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Old 22-08-2017, 18:11   #10
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Re: How about 20% ethanol in your gas?

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A guy I know sells and repairs small engine implements. He says ethanol is great for his business.

I live in Iowa. The few farmers I've talked to hate the ethon policies. They would rather grow what they want based on a free market rather than have their crop dictated to them by government policy.
That sounds rather disingenuous. They grow corn because it makes them the most money, with the subsidies, the government doesn't force them to. The subsidies don't make growing other crops less profitable. They are free to grow whatever they want.
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Old 22-08-2017, 18:37   #11
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Re: How about 20% ethanol in your gas?

And guess who needs those plains swing votes? The only way this gets stopped is if the EPA can figure a way. Weird, but this is NOT something the EPA wants, it is something they have been saddled with.

  • More expensive.
  • Water separation problems may be reduced (20% ETOH can absorb more water before separating).
  • More corrosion. Better pick a good additive, based on actual 3rd party corrosion testing, not advertising.
  • Enleanment may be a problem for mid-size outboards and older inboards. A richer mixture will be required. Very small outboards are generally jetted rather rich, and large multi-fuel engines have sensor controlled injection (cars), but the 9.9-100 hp range, specifically older ones, may be a problem.
The biggest source of resistance may be gas stations. E20 will mean giving up mid-grade, and they won't like that. I believe the EPA (check me on this--I'm not certain) granted E15 wavers back to 2001, so soon there will be very few vehicals that must have E10 or less. E20 I'm not sure about.
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Old 22-08-2017, 19:47   #12
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Re: How about 20% ethanol in your gas?

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That sounds rather disingenuous. They grow corn because it makes them the most money, with the subsidies, the government doesn't force them to. The subsidies don't make growing other crops less profitable. They are free to grow whatever they want.
Government incentives to a large degree dictate what farmers grow. That's why Iowa has gone to monocultures of corn and soybean. Such incentives don't mean farmers earn more, it means the supply and demand has been artificially reshaped to make many crops no longer economically viable. (I know many farmers who take on second jobs working 60 hours a week or more because they simply can't live on what they make farming). If the government had policies incentivizing vegetables for human consumption, then Iowa farmers would grow that. Add to this, one major seed manufacturer will basically sue any farmer who doesn't buy their seed. They are able to do so once again due to policy.

To address a point made by another user the corn grown for ethenol and feed isn't anything people would want to eat. It's a commodity, not a human food. Iowa has some of the best potential food growing soil in the U.S. but due to government regulations we use it to create ethanol to dilute our gas with, requiring us to drain aquifers to grow crops in the desert.

There are some great documentaries about why the department of agriculture has created the policies it has, and it's not because farmers pushed for these policies. (Take a look at who has been sitting on the department of Ag the past 30 years)

I think it's terrible the government is using our tax dollars to help produce ethanol which the government mandates be put in gas, but I think it's disingenuous to blame farmers for these government policies. Farmers overall grow what policy dictates they grow. Farmers don't dictate gas contain ethanol.

If we are going to use plant based fuel, bio diesel is much, much better in my opinion, but we are pushing hybrid gas/ethanol vehicles rather than diesel. Diesel fuel used to be cheaper than regular gas, now it's more expensive again because of government policy, not because of free market forces. We could subsidize biodiesel instead of ethenol, but we do the opposite, we artificially increase the price of diesel and artificially lower the cost of gas diluted with ethanol. There's a reason the U.S. lags behind so many other nations in diesel engine cars.
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Old 22-08-2017, 19:49   #13
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Re: How about 20% ethanol in your gas?

Peregrine, thanks for the link. I responded to BoatUS.
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Old 22-08-2017, 20:29   #14
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Re: How about 20% ethanol in your gas?

No problem. Kudos to Boat US for setting up the link. I only wish that their form letter went a bit beyond "this stuff is messing up our boats"... Ethanol is bad news for so many other reasons.
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Old 22-08-2017, 21:07   #15
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Re: How about 20% ethanol in your gas?

No thanks. I have a hard enough time at work keeping our outboards carburetor jets from becoming fouled with 10% ethanol. Now they want to make our boats even less reliable and not compensate us for it?
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