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Old 30-05-2011, 08:44   #1
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Help ! Hydraulic Lock - Water in Lubrication Oil

Here in Barra de Navidad on Memorial Day Monday. Went to start my Ford Lehman 120 yesterday, but no go. Ruled out electrical, then checked oil, and oil looked perfect EXCEPT level way up. But no sign of dilution. Dumped oil, which went from good oil to salt water, completely separate, so obviously this water came in AFTER engine was last turned off in the slip, settled at bottom of oil pan, and didn't show on stick as water.
I need help to fugure out how it got there, where it came in from?

It did not come in from exhaust thru-hull because exhaust riser there is steep (redesigned years ago).
I checked the Vetus (valved) anti-siphon valve placed in the loop out of the manifold riser; it looks clean. Too clean. No evidence of salt??
I pulled the exhaust hose off the back of the riser -- full of water.
Seems like I siphoned water after last shut off -- but from where??

(By the way, I think I've correctly removed salt water from cylinder heads; removed the injectors and sprayed wd 40 in there and turned motor over spraying crap all over the place -- water evident in #5 & #6, now seems just wd 40 coming out -- I hope. Trouble with wd 40 is it looks just like water !!)
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Old 30-05-2011, 08:57   #2
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Re: Help! Hydraulic lock; water in lubrication oil

chances are the anti siphon failed,good reason for shutting off the seacock when you are finished with the engine,suggest taking it off and doing a blow/suck test to see if it works correctly.

you also need to get the engine running to evaporate water on the crank then change the oil again and filter,also ideally draining from the sump drain.
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Old 30-05-2011, 09:28   #3
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Re: Help! Hydraulic lock; water in lubrication oil

Quote:
I pulled the exhaust hose off the back of the riser -- full of water.
Which means that the water lift muffler is probably also filled with water. Be sure and drain that before attempting to start motor.

Likely source of salt water is a siphon break failure. Unlikely sources? = do you have a dripless shaft seal that connects to the raw water system? (a small hose that brings water to the seal for cooling). Are you 100% sure there is no way that water somehow got forced back up the exhaust hose? Perhaps from passing wakes, strong currents, wind chop from unusual direction while your boat was in the slip.

Getting the water out ASAP is vital. Like shampoo, the instructions are easy: "lather, rinse, repeat." Suck all fluid out of sump, spin on a clean oil filter and put a few quarts of Marvel Mystery Oil or diesel fuel into sump and crank motor for a few minutes with injectors removed. Suck sump dry again, and fill with fresh motor oil, replace injectors and run for 45 minutes under load if possible. Get engine up to normal op temp. Then, change the oil and filter again. Perform another oil change in about 6-8 hours of engine time.

Good luck and keep us posted.
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Old 30-05-2011, 10:03   #4
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Vetus makes an anti siphon without the valve. I have a fitting that is tapped into my scupper fitting. No cheap part to fail.good luck
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Old 30-05-2011, 10:10   #5
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Re: Help! Hydraulic lock; water in lubrication oil

Couple of answers; there is no way water backed up from thru-hull into exhaust. Calmest of seas in an enclosed marina. Yes, I do have a dripless shaft seal but it's vent-hose rises above shaft and just hangs there, i.e. doesn't connect back into anything.
Boy, I wish I could get Marvel Mystery Oil down here. Wouldn't that be great. But will have to go with lots of fresh oil changes.

Question: though I've tested the anti siphon valve and it seems to be okay, what would be effect of taking the valve out and just just having the loop with a vent there instead? Do I have to have the valve in place?
I'm just worried now that I have the motor all torn apart, about putting it all back together and flushing oil several times, and yet haven't discovered what caused all of this in the first place?
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Old 30-05-2011, 10:12   #6
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Re: Help! Hydraulic lock; water in lubrication oil

Sabray, would taking the valve out of the Vetus be the same as the Vetus w/o the valve? I would have to run the vent hose somewhere -- hard for me to get it out to a cockpit scupper but maybe while I trouble shoot this it would be worth it to just run it overboard somehow?
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Old 30-05-2011, 10:48   #7
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Re: Help! Hydraulic lock; water in lubrication oil

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Originally Posted by Geoff H. View Post
Question: though I've tested the anti siphon valve and it seems to be okay, what would be effect of taking the valve out and just just having the loop with a vent there instead?
I think you would have water constantly coming out of that.

If no Marvel Myst oil, use lots of clean diesel to rinse the inside of engine before attempting to start. Put a few gallons in the crank case; it can't hurt as long as you are just turning the motor over with no compression. Leave the injectors out until you are ready to start it with all fresh oil.
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Old 30-05-2011, 10:58   #8
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Re: Help! Hydraulic lock; water in lubrication oil

The Vetus antisiphon has a nipple on both the valved unit and the overboard one. Just take the guts out and run a 8mm -1/4 inch hose overboard.

How high above the exhaust elbow is the siphon?
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Old 30-05-2011, 12:24   #9
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Re: Help! Hydraulic lock; water in lubrication oil

Thanks everybody. I've since added new oil and diesel (mix) into engine and cranked it.What total amount is sufficient? It's showing just diesel an inch or so at bottom of dipstick. Is this enough to get picked up and sloshed around?
Will now drain, and then reinstall injectors and then add new oil to capacity.

Next will be to try and prevent this from happening again. What caused it?!!
My best guess is the anti siphon valve on exhaust riser, though there is nothing to suggest it, other than the 3+ gallons of saltwater sitting clean underneath my good synthetic oil!!.
Antares, height above riser is about 4 feet, pretty much a dead straight run up.
I'm thinking that I could take valve out of Vetus, run 1/4" hose to aft head sink as a pretty straight run, let it run and at least if all is good then rule out any other possibility. Wish I could run to a cockpit scupper but don't have any way to do this? Is there any other way to get rid of valve part of loop? Damned thing is one yr old and it looked perfect inside, with no salt build up or debris. Shouldn't it show some if its doing anything?
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Old 30-05-2011, 12:34   #10
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Re: Help! Hydraulic lock; water in lubrication oil

when you shut off the engine and are close by the anti siphon you should be able to hear a noise as it sucks in air.

other wise take it off and block off one end and suck air should pass the valve,but not if you blow
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Old 30-05-2011, 12:44   #11
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Re: Help! Hydraulic lock; water in lubrication oil

an alternative to a vetus type anti siphon is to fit a domestic non return valve on a tee,much bigger surface area,so less chance of blocking
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Old 30-05-2011, 14:51   #12
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Re: Help! Hydraulic lock; water in lubrication oil

One more question, probably for any Ford Lehman experts: in putting the injectors back into the head, shouldn't there be a "popping" in, some indication that they are being seated? I ask because in taking them out they had to be forced or "popped" out, but in putting them in they just seem to sit there, and then I've torqued the two opposing bolts slowly one at a time to seat them. No other way I guess?
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Old 30-05-2011, 14:56   #13
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Re: Help! Hydraulic lock; water in lubrication oil

just tighten the bolts. No real popping. You should eventually replace the seat washers if you didn't have new ones. I've reused them before, but Lehman says you should put new ones in every time the injectors come out.
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Old 30-05-2011, 17:50   #14
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Re: Help ! Hydraulic Lock - Water in Lubrication Oil

Thanks Doug. That's what I did. And I even found a qt. of Marvel Mystery oil to add to the brew.
But now that everything is back together engine won't turn over. Just a very hesitant grunt or two from starter then nothing. Think I probably killed the starter in all the f ing around back there. Too much spilled exhaust water, diesel, etc. I'll switch it out tomorrow for a spare and hope for the best. Too tired to do it now; I'd just get stuck back there and never get out!!
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Old 30-05-2011, 18:20   #15
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Re: Help ! Hydraulic Lock - Water in Lubrication Oil

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Originally Posted by Geoff H. View Post
Thanks Doug. That's what I did. And I even found a qt. of Marvel Mystery oil to add to the brew.
But now that everything is back together engine won't turn over. Just a very hesitant grunt or two from starter then nothing. Think I probably killed the starter in all the f ing around back there. Too much spilled exhaust water, diesel, etc. I'll switch it out tomorrow for a spare and hope for the best. Too tired to do it now; I'd just get stuck back there and never get out!!
Geoff, I had EXACTLY the same problem--3 gallons of salt water in the oil from a failed anti-siphon. You seem to have gotten right to it with the diesel flush, etc., but I am concerned that the engine won't turn over. Have you tried to bar the engine over at the front crank pulley? If you can't, then you probably still have some water in there and it takes only a few hours for the rings to rust to the cylinder walls. If you can break it loose and then come back a few hours later and have to break it loose again, there is something wrong. Do not let the engine sit more than a few hours without turning it until you can do a complete teardown. If the rust gets ahead of you, you are in for major heartache. Good luck!
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