Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 20-10-2012, 21:44   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 2
Greenhorn question

Why on these small sailboats with small engines Raw water cooled ..??? And not a self contained sealed freshwater system ? And no one mentions " distilled water" ; ( 50/50 mix " coolant/ antifreze runs hotter than straight water ) Use 1 bottle of Redline Water Wetter . Runs Cooler. ie antifreze in So Cal Ocean Marina ?
ie 32 Ericson I am thinking of buying with Universal MB20B ; plenty of room etc for a couple of Radiators / with fans ..
And eliminate that constantly corrode-ing sytem ..... Lots less plumbing / thur-holes etc . Heat-Exchangers a guaranteed problem ..
PS I was trained as a motorcycle mechanic / auto mechanic than the last 10 years I was a tugboat engineer .
__________________

__________________
joemitchell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-10-2012, 22:18   #2
Registered User
 
four winds's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wandering the US Gulf Coast
Boat: 78 Pearson323 Four Winds
Posts: 2,138
Re: Greenhorn question

My guess, it would be difficult to bring in fresh cool air for the fans to force through the radiator, and provide an exit path for the heated air.

Placing the radiator in a more exposed location outside the engine room would bring up another set of difficulties and present an aesthetic dilemma as well.
__________________

__________________
Life begins at the waters edge.
four winds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-10-2012, 22:23   #3
Moderator Emeritus
 
David M's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay
Boat: research vessel
Posts: 10,150
Re: Greenhorn question

With a car radiator, you would still have to get the hot air out of the cabin or engine space.
__________________
David

Life begins where land ends.
David M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-10-2012, 23:06   #4
Registered User
 
pillum's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: In Aberdeen, Scotland, but retiring to Spain.
Boat: Westerly W-35 (Latterly sold as Conway 36 Aft Cockpit)
Posts: 509
Images: 28
Re: Greenhorn question

Difficult to equate cars and motorcycles to boats in terms of mass airflow across air cooled engines or radiators. The slower the movement through the air the less air flow and hence less cooling, and boats travel relatively ssssssllllllooooowwwww. Also you would need to ensure that your air intakes are rated for heavy weather offshore use, using an IP-68 forced air cooling system would be cost prohibitive.
__________________
Sweet are the uses of adversity.
pillum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-10-2012, 23:11   #5
Registered User
 
NoTies's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vanuatu
Boat: Whiting 29' extended "Nightcap"
Posts: 1,378
Images: 2
Re: Greenhorn question

NOISE
__________________
Pete

Positively, socially deviant.
NoTies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2012, 02:56   #6
Moderator
 
noelex 77's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Living on dirt waiting for our new yacht to be built.
Boat: Half built Bestevaer.
Posts: 10,619
Re: Greenhorn question

Welcome to the forum.

There are a few air / radiator cooled marine engines used in yachts, but it is not common.
It eliminates many problems with marine engines and when done well it can create a very reliable, if somewhat noisy, engine instalations .

However it is very difficult to retrofit an existing yacht. You need deck openings which are protected from spray to bring in cool air. The exhaust system needs to be changed to dry etc etc.
__________________
noelex 77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2012, 05:28   #7
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,579
Images: 240
Re: Greenhorn question

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, joemitchell.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2012, 05:34   #8
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
Re: Greenhorn question

much easyier is to fit a heat exchanger,and small electric central heating pump to circulate the cooling water
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2012, 19:25   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 2
Arrow Re: Greenhorn question / 2nd edition

Someone mentioned how slow these boats move to the water . 1st most of these engines were originally " stationary engines" / tractors / industrial etc. Converted to marine use due primarily to their compactness. And then" Marined" with the technology at the time 30s/40s/ etc. ie very under sized oil systems ( thus Remote/ doubled filters/ and coolers); these important modifications will extend Engine Life 3-5+ times . And considerably COOL the engine ( esp cly head). My own Universal M320 has a 4 qt cap. I'd like to see at least 8 . Diesels at 21:1 compression ratio/ and old "oil rings" have a inherent BlowBy problem. IE the unburned gases BlowBy the Rings and you have diesel/carbon/etc. Extremely damaging. More oil/well filtered/cooled is necessary for any reasonable engine life. And critically important when stressing the engine.
Remote cold air induction with a decent air filter system;ie rewashable Foam.
Raw Water , corrode-ing system ; in my case I will Close Loop this system . 1st try (simply economically) vastly increase the water capacity(freshwater) in the block/cly head. ( run and check temps/ both water cooling systems and oil temp/pressure.) then add capacity to the original Raw Water corrode-ing system. Then as a safety backup add a small fan/ temp triggered .
__________________
joemitchell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-10-2012, 21:23   #10
Senior Cruiser
 
DeepFrz's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Boat: None at this time
Posts: 7,930
Re: Greenhorn question

Let us know how it works out.
__________________
DeepFrz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 17:38   #11
Registered User
 
GrowleyMonster's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: New Orleans
Boat: 1976 Cal 2-27
Posts: 1,298
Re: Greenhorn question

I don't think radiators are allowed for cooling marine propulsion engines. There are air cooled diesels, but they have a reputation for being noisy. Sometimes this reputation is well earned, as with the Lister or Petter engines. There are cheap Chinese diesels that are air cooled. You don't have to go with an inboard heat exchanger... a keel cooler works just dandy. Lots of trawlers (actual trawling trawlers, not trawler style motor yachts) have them.

Raw water cooling was used for simplicity, compactness, and economy. In fresh or brackish water, it's not such a big deal anyway. Actually, come to think of it, my Atomic 4 which is OEM in my '76 built boat, is raw water cooled, and so far, so good. Of course, it could go any day. Maybe I will still be saying, "any day now", 20 years from now. It lives in brackish Lake Pontchartrain now, but spent much of its life in salt and ventures out into the salt now and then. Raw water cooling isn't a good thing, but it isn't always a terrible curse, either. YMMV.
__________________
GrowleyMonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 17:52   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,949
Re: Greenhorn question

What makes you think your engine is running hot? In my experience, with a wide variety of marine engines, the OEM cooling systems are just fine. If it is currently raw water cooled I would try it out first before getting into elaborate mods to cure a problem that may not exist.
__________________
Kettlewell Cruising
Kettlewell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2012, 16:24   #13
Registered User
 
ranger42c's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Maryland, USA
Boat: 42' Sportfish
Posts: 2,984
Re: Greenhorn question

Quote:
Originally Posted by joemitchell View Post
Why on these small sailboats with small engines Raw water cooled ..??? And not a self contained sealed freshwater system ? And no one mentions " distilled water" ; ( 50/50 mix " coolant/ antifreze runs hotter than straight water ) Use 1 bottle of Redline Water Wetter . Runs Cooler. ie antifreze in So Cal Ocean Marina ?
ie 32 Ericson I am thinking of buying with Universal MB20B ; plenty of room etc for a couple of Radiators / with fans ..
And eliminate that constantly corrode-ing sytem ..... Lots less plumbing / thur-holes etc . Heat-Exchangers a guaranteed problem ..
PS I was trained as a motorcycle mechanic / auto mechanic than the last 10 years I was a tugboat engineer .

I'd have thought you'd be seeing about as many many engines listed as fresh water cooled.

I'd guess you know this from your tugboat days, but for others, maybe...

These essentially have two parts to the cooling system: a closed coolant system (50/50 antifreeze/water) within the engine itself, AND a surrounding jacket through which raw water courses. The "freshwater" (coolant) at one point flows through a "heat exchanger" in several enclosed small tubes -- and raw water flows through there, too, around each of the coolant tubes. Raw water usually enters through a water pump, into the heat exchanger, aftercoolers and transmission oil coolers in larger implementations, and then out through the exhaust.

And of course that's not the same as raw water cooled...

-Chris
__________________
Selby Bay, South River, Chesapeake Bay, USA.
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2012, 16:36   #14
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
Re: Greenhorn question

Quote:
Originally Posted by joemitchell View Post
Why on these small sailboats with small engines Raw water cooled ..???
In addition to the reasons mentioned so far, most of us run heat exchangers in our water heaters, using engine heat to generate hot water.
__________________

__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:27.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.