Going to look at boat with seized Perkins 4.108

[sanibel sailor]

Looking at a boat tomorrow that has a seized engine, Perkins 4.108, V drive, installed under an island style counter in galley, seems like it should be excellent access. Boat has been sitting in a slip for years, owner abandoned it. I have no info on how/why/when the engine quit. I am hoping it is not fatally wounded (like years of salt water sitting in cylinders) If it really is seized, then of course it will need to be pulled and overhauled or replaced. My price assumes this to be the case, but I am hoping to get lucky.

What are "fixable" causes of apparent stuck engine. I am looking for advice on how to approach/troubleshoot the problem.

Anyone in the Tampa area experienced with this engine want to earn some money wrenching on it? Thanks.

[sww914]

I'm fixing a 4.108 for a guy that was seized. He freed it up and got it running again but it had really low compression on #4. The boatyard that hauled it for him lifted it severely nose down and water from the exhaust ran into the back two cylinders. It sat like that for 4 months. It rusted one valve so badly that 10% of it was gone and pitted one piston so badly that it doubled the combustion chamber volume, together, no compression.
I had a 4.107 in this boat that had water in it for 8 years. I took the head off and everything was trashed. I bought a used 4.108 from a member here for $800.00 with 4000 hours on it. I re-sealed it and rebuilt the injectors and injection pump and replaced the alternator, fresh water pump, lift pump and a couple little things that normally wear out and it's been flawless for 700 hours so far.
You can rebuild a 4.108 because the parts are cheap enough and have a good engine. It has pressed in cylinders. Mine just didn't need rebuilding.

[Nicholson58]

You will likely spend more than an old, seized engine is worth to have it looked over. Replace with a new, good one and E-Bay the old one for parts. If you want to check yourself, put a wrench on the crank withthe injectors pulled. If you can't budge it - forget it.

[GrowleyMonster]

If the price is right, go for it. You should be able to find a running 4108 for 3k or less, if you find that one to not be worth rebuilding. Temporarily, you could even use an outboard, if you only need an engine for in/out.

Pull the head and try to move the pistons with a piece of wood and a hammer, after a liberal soaking with Marvel Mystery Oil. Once you break them loose, you should be able to roll the crankshaft with a socket wrench or something. Drain the oil... if there is significant water in the oil and it has been there for years, you should probably figure on new bearings and such. Ask a mechanic. With the head reinstalled over a new gasket, and properly torqued, after a change of oil, bleed the injectors and try to start. Run for a couple of minutes and change oil again. Maybe you will be good to go. Look for excessive smoking, etc and check compression in each cyl. Check for good cooling circulation. Oh, replace the impellor. Don't even ask yourself if the old one still looks good or not. If it has been sitting for more than a year or two, it's not. Impellors are too cheap to trust an old one.

Maybe you will get off easy. Maybe not. But just having a good block is something.

[sww914]

Umm, sorry. I forgot to answer the big question. How do I free it up?
Drain the oil. If a bunch of water comes out (more than a gallon) it might be terminal.
Remove the injectors. Squirt some PB Blaster down each cylinder, 3-4 seconds of spray. Put a big wrench on the crankshaft pulley bolt. GENTLY rock it back and forth, back and forth. Wait til tomorrow and do that again. Repeat.
If you try too hard to break it loose you'll break the rings or the piston ring lands.
If you get it lose pour a couple tablespoons of ATF in each hole and rotate the engine around several times. Not too much or you'll hydrolock it.
Put the injectors back in taking care to tighten them down evenly and making sure that you have each copper sealing washer in place. Bleed the injection system.
Put new oil in and a new filter.
Try to start it up.
If it doesn't start within 30 seconds, try a little shot of starting fluid.
Good luck.

[David M]

There are a number of fatal reasons it could be seized up such as water getting inside, ran without oil, threw a connecting rod, etc. All mean you need a rebuild or a replacement. You are smart in pricing in the worse case scenario.

[Nicholson58]

I predict that if you do the math, and weigh reliability into the equation, the incrimental to replace will make sense. I can't imagine going offshore with an aux I couldn't trust. I wouldn't rebuild in place - pull it out and totally tear down. If it has water inside, you will boil the block and components; replace bearings; grind the crank; new bearings; re-bore; new pistons & rings; new injectors - etc. The old motor will make a nice core trade on a new one.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by sww914

I'm fixing a 4.108 for a guy that was seized. He freed it up and got it running again but it had really low compression on #4. The boatyard that hauled it for him lifted it severely nose down and water from the exhaust ran into the back two cylinders. It sat like that for 4 months. It rusted one valve so badly that 10% of it was gone and pitted one piston so badly that it doubled the combustion chamber volume, together, no compression.
I had a 4.107 in this boat that had water in it for 8 years. I took the head off and everything was trashed. I bought a used 4.108 from a member here for $800.00 with 4000 hours on it. I re-sealed it and rebuilt the injectors and injection pump and replaced the alternator, fresh water pump, lift pump and a couple little things that normally wear out and it's been flawless for 700 hours so far.
You can rebuild a 4.108 because the parts are cheap enough and have a good engine. It has pressed in cylinders. Mine just didn't need rebuilding.

I thought the 4-107 had sleeved cylinders but th 4-108 didnt...?

[sanibel sailor]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I thought the 4-107 had sleeved cylinders but th 4-108 didnt...?

other way round

[onestepcsy37]

somewhere around here i saw an ad from a company in the panhandle that will take your old block in trade on a rebuilt 4-108 for around $6000. don't know what kind of transmission you have. if the v-drive is a walther, they're in new jersey and will rebuild it for around $1000.

what with installation and everything else i'm thinking you could be in for $10 to $12k....

[sww914]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I thought the 4-107 had sleeved cylinders but th 4-108 didnt...?

I thought it was one or the other too. The book says that the 107 has cylinders with O rings that are fitted by hand and that the 108 cylinders are pressed in and they describe at length the importance of measuring how far you push the 107 cylinders in with your thumbs and how to make a special spacer for the 108 to lay on the top of the block on either side of the cylinder as you press it in so that you don't press it too far. The book is for 107 & 108m, for sure and 99- I think. Maybe the 108 without the M has integral cylinders?

[Cheechako]

Searching for rebuild kits, Here's what I had on it:
"How you tell the difference is the 4-107 has wet liners and can be rebuilt without taking the engine block out, Just replace the cylinder liners. the headbolt studs were 5/16 . A 4-108 cylinder head will fit if you use a piece of brass tubing as a shim over the studs.
The 4-108 has larger diameter head bolts.
also the 4-107 has weep holes on the side of the block where the fuel distributor is. The weep holes are below the fuel distributor.
The 4-108 has dry liners so if it needs boring the block would have to be moved out of the boat to a machine shop. There are NO weep holes.
Also the fuel lines between injectors on the 108 leaked less because the fuel line was all metal NOT rubber hoses. "

[mbianka]

Might be a good time to go electric:
THE BIANKA LOG BLOG: Going electric: Part 1: The why and how
Just saying.

I sold my old Westerbeke diesel to a fellow who rebuilt it (his own labor) spent $3,500 in parts and machine shop. It ran for two years and then had injection pump issues so he replaced it with another engine.

[sanibel sailor]

Engine is in horrible shape, rusty dipstick with only oily rust in crankcase, seized solid. Will make a fine anchor. I have a line on a 4.108 good running engine from a trusted acquaintance. It was in a RV generator that had a bad alternator. I should be able to swap all the marinizing stuff over.

Anyone in Tampa/Ft Myers area interested in working on this for me?

[sww914]

Good plan. I have a friend with a diesel generator (isuzu) that has 60,000 hours on it. Constant load for 9.8 years. They never shut it off, they changed the oil with it running.