Gasoline as a Diesel Stablizer

[GrahamHO]

In the boat explosion incident I mentioned, that I witnessed, it had refuelled at a jetty. Presumably the tank was near empty and they took on say 20 gallons of gasoline or in our language petrol. What we do know is that fumes (not fuel) were displaced from the tank as it filled and they flowed into the cabin; perhaps 20 gallons of fumes.

They started the engine and pulled away OK and anchored nearby. The mother went to the front cabin and put the baby to sleep. The father decided to make coffee and lit the gas stove. BANG the boat exploded and the entire topsides on one side were smashed out with 2 big cracks to the waterline. They all got out the front hatch. Then seconds later the fuel tank exploded with flames 30' high.

That's what a boat explosion is like.

There were plenty of people around to do the rescue including myself but others were there first.

No way would I mix gasoline with diesel. They were of course "only" using gasoline.

Thinwater says fumes from a mix are more dangerous and I believe him. It's possibly getting a bit like jet fuel I imagine.

The same thing can happen at car gas stations. Refuel your car and the fumes are displaced. Your cell phone in your pocket rings and sets off a flash explosion. I was working once with Shell safety officer and he told me there are about 10 such events a year in NZ with only 4 million people.

Fuel ⛽ is dangerous stuff. Don't take chances.

[Trim50]

Just goes to show you that boating is dangerous and everyone should just stay at home watching TV with the rest of the hamsters.

If you want to talk about something dangerous, let's discuss propane and other cooking gasses...the stuff heavier than air that really blows the **** out boats.

[wooden head]

Cel phones do not cause gasoline station fires. Popular myth never born out. Some warnings have been posted by petrolium companies and cel phone companies just in case.

http://www.snopes.com/autos/hazards/gasvapor.asp

[GrahamHO]

Originally Posted by Trim50

Yes, but he has also spent 9 years sailing around the same bay writing a book about it ...someone needs to show him the way out!

So what are your oil industry qualifications?
I don't have any myself, except to listen to good advice on the subject.

What I do know is that generally diesel is not as dangerous as gasoline. That tends to suggest that a mixture of the 2 must be more dangerous than diesel alone.

Good on thinwater for writing s book. What have you done?

[GrahamHO]

Originally Posted by Trim50

Look guys...flash point of a liquid fuel mixture does not determine that it will explode or ignite. The vapor pressure of that mixture equal to the sum of the individual partial pressures, must be within the explosive limits under the given temperature and pressure and there needs to be a source of ignition, spark, flame or divine interaction. Otherwise every bottle of isopropyl, acetone, paint thinner, bottle of 151 would be an explosive hazard.

I met this guy who has a secret formula for running cars on water alone. He told me the oil companies are trying to kill him and can I lend him $1000 and he will pay back double.

[GrahamHO]

Originally Posted by wooden head

Cel phones do not cause gasoline station fires. Popular myth never born out. Some warnings have been posted by petrolium companies and cel phone companies just in case.

Cell Phone Use at Gas Pump : snopes.com

There was a fatal explosion in a tunnel being made to carry water. Someone took a photo with a point and shoot camera and that exploded natural methane or whatever gas unbeknown existed underground. Auckland NZ 5 or so years ago. Somebody died. Somebody lost their legs.

I believed the advise of the Shell safety officer who was advising me about cell phones and fumes In another scenario

[GrahamHO]

Originally Posted by Trim50

Just goes to show you that boating is dangerous and everyone should just stay at home watching TV with the rest of the hamsters.

If you want to talk about something dangerous, let's discuss propane and other cooking gasses...the stuff heavier than air that really blows the **** out boats.

They need guys like you in Syria Plenty of oil wells there to experiment with

[El Pinguino]

Having an explosive atmosphere in your tank isn't an issue until you introduce a spark *into* the tank.

If you have no leaks downstream between tank and injector I don't see a problem. Its not as if you have an empty but non gas free tank after carrying crude.... that can get ugly

No idea re the bug killing aspect.

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, TheBestAnchor.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by GrahamHO

……...

Thinwater says fumes from a mix are more dangerous and I believe him. It's possibly getting a bit like jet fuel I imagine.
……...

Fuel ⛽ is dangerous stuff. Don't take chances.

Just a very small point of difference….
Jet fuel is way more like kerosine than any other fuel or fuel mix. Essentially it is kerosine.

[Trim50]

Originally Posted by GrahamHO

Good on thinwater for writing s book. What have you done?

Well, I was at least able to leave the bay and sail most of the way around the world...and still going. When I actually worked for a living, I produced more than 35 US and international patents in a range of engineering fields. I am 49 and retired.

And you?

[Trim50]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, TheBestAnchor.

He's not new...

[Trim50]

Originally Posted by GrahamHO

They need guys like you in Syria Plenty of oil wells there to experiment with

Yeah, let me first get my velcro and chewing tobacco!

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Trim50

Because it is hard to argue with real data, here is 200ml of diesel and 10ml of gasoline. I mix them, and try to ignite the mixture.

Conditions 30C/65% humidity/1atm

The mixture douses the flame every time. Feel free to perform the experiment yourself.

Open cup tests are not applicable to fuels. That is a fire point test.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Can you expand on this please?
What specific metal in the penny causes the problem and what is the effect on the stability of the diesel?

Copper and zinc are notorious for catalyzing polymerization reactions in diesel and gasoline. EVERY engine manufacture has installation instructions forbidding the use of zinc or copper alloys. Boat builders don't listen.

Sail Delmarva: Are We the Cause of Fuel Breakdown?