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Old 20-10-2012, 07:18   #46
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Re: Gas Station Diesel vs Marine Diesel

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Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
all diesel here is clear. no dye. road or boat dock--i go to fuel dock with jerry jugs and fill my boat for a few pennies less than going to dock--isnt that much difference here. government regulations are not always bad.....keeps pricing lower than usa.
but, to answer the question, yet again, there is no difference in the road and boat fuel except the color. and the tax.

even in fla we used road fuel-- who is gonna come out to an anchored boat to test color of fuel.....rodlmao. usa isnt quite that bad , yet....

Yeah, I guess it all depends on how careful you should be about the rules, but personally I wouldn't risk it.

I will find out what the fine is later and report back. I'm sure they'll know at the muni marina.
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Old 20-10-2012, 07:20   #47
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Re: Gas Station Diesel vs Marine Diesel

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Huh there is weird information going about. Taxed fuel. The dyed fuel is usually the low tax fuel. Normally where I go road fuel has no dye and is taxed as such. Off road fuel is dyed and avoids the tax. I run road taxed fuel as it is usually less expensive then marina fuel. Makes no sense that you would be fined for using a no dyed fuel.

I'm going to go ask at the fuel dock later on. I want to know myself, although personally I wouldn't want to bother with jerry jugs to fill my tank.
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Old 20-10-2012, 07:36   #48
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Marinas are under heavier regulations so have to charge more. That is not to say they do not take advantage of less competition.
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Old 20-10-2012, 07:41   #49
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Re: Gas Station Diesel vs Marine Diesel

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Maybe it's just Florida, but I doubt it -- but where I am, it is ILLEGAL to buy diesel at a gas station and put it in a boat. That's why they're two different colors. That's how you can be busted.
Assuming you're in Tampa Bay area, can you provide a pointer to this law? It sounds very strange to me.

In fact, the way I read the law, in Florida you can file for a refund for the road tax paid on gas station diesel that you put in your boat.

http://dor.myflorida.com/dor/forms/2012/dr309639.pdf
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Old 20-10-2012, 07:43   #50
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Re: Gas Station Diesel vs Marine Diesel

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Yup, boaters in FL pay a fuel tax. Only commercial fishing is exempt, as I understand. But I believe they must file for a refund, not use undyed fuel.
No, in Florida, marina gas has road tax on it, marina diesel does not have road tax on it. All gas station fuel has road tax on it.
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Old 20-10-2012, 07:48   #51
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Re: Gas Station Diesel vs Marine Diesel

In Alaska we had the same issue, and some carried their fuel in jugs. The savings can be substantial in some places. The idea that someone would check fuel color is funny, but I suppose they might when inspecting a large vessel like a fishing boat or whale-watcher.

What irked me was that the marine fuel was taxed, but the taxes were supposedly for marine improvements like dredging, buoyage, harbor/breakwater maintenance, etc. but our local authorities never file to get their share back from Washington. Makes cheating on taxes feel justified.

Here in Mexico many people carry jugs from the nearest Pemex station because the marinas, while not having colored fuel, do charge substantially more. I believe the Mexican government (Pemex is a government franchise) tries to keep diesel cost low for the sake of truckers, but marinas are free to charge what they can, and during certain times of the year when most boats are docked and (gringo) owners have fled the heat, their fuel can be pretty stale.
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Old 20-10-2012, 08:07   #52
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Re: Gas Station Diesel vs Marine Diesel

I was told of a location that had the red higher sulfur content fuel with big savings I drove there with my 5 gallon cans only to find that 4 inch nozzle and massive flow rate a little hard to deal with,so from then on it was fuel station fuel with additives added later
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Old 20-10-2012, 08:16   #53
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Re: Gas Station Diesel vs Marine Diesel

Perhaps the confusion about taxes in Florida is due to the fact there are two different taxes involved. The first is highway use excise tax and the second is sales tax. All boat use diesel is exempt from the highway use excise tax and that is why you can apply for a refund if you use highway diesel in your boat. Only commercial vessels are exmpt from the sales tax and you cannot get a refund on that. This is why marina pump prices typically don't include sales taxes which are added to the pump price. If the fuel goes into a commercial boat then they do not add the sales tax. The diesel at a service station has the highway excise tax and the sales tax included in the pump price since highway use is subject to both taxes.

I am not aware of any statewide florida law that prohibits highway taxed diesel fuel to be used in recreational boats. Is there a local ordinance in Tampa that prohibits it? I know in NY city for example it's illegal to "jerry can" fuel on marina docks. I'm under the impression that this is a fire safety and pollution prevention issue.
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Old 20-10-2012, 08:25   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakuflames

I'm going to go ask at the fuel dock later on. I want to know myself, although personally I wouldn't want to bother with jerry jugs to fill my tank.
Well if you sail and don't use much its no big thing. . I have the added advantage of having a truck with a 100 gallon transfer tank. Life on a mooring and solar panels maybe make the difference.
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Old 20-10-2012, 08:37   #55
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Re: Gas Station Diesel vs Marine Diesel

The facts are, the red fuel being sold at the marrina's does not have the road tax's being applied. That is why it is red. It is the same fuel that farmers us in there tractors, and construction workers use in there diesel equipment that doesn't travel on roads. If you buy dyed fuel and use it in a vehicle that travels on roads, and you get pulled over, they can take a sample of the fuel and bust you for using it. On a boat, if you use road fuel, meaning un dyed fuel, they have no way of telling because the residal dyed fuel will color the undyed fuel. Some marina's have rules that restrict use of jeary can fuel, to prevent its use and will give reasons like potental fuel spills and so forth but bottom line is they want you to buy there fuel. The untaxed dyed fuel is cheaper than road fuel because it dosn't have the taxes applied. Marrina's make more money per gallon selling it, but they also have more expence per gallon, dealing with EPA, and they typically don't sell as much as say a fueling station, so they need to make more per gallon to cover there costs.
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Old 20-10-2012, 09:04   #56
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Re: Gas Station Diesel vs Marine Diesel

as to the quality of fuel--IS ALL THE SAME. DIESEL IS DIESEL.
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Old 20-10-2012, 09:15   #57
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Re: Gas Station Diesel vs Marine Diesel

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as to the quality of fuel--IS ALL THE SAME. DIESEL IS DIESEL.
From everything that I have found, there is no differance between, dyed fuel and undyed fuel, except the coloring they add. All the fuel comes from the same source, some individual sellers of fuel claim to put additives in thier fuel, and they may, this was a reason that was presented to me one time when I pointed out that there fuel was .20/gal more than a competitor a mile away.
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Old 20-10-2012, 09:44   #58
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Diesal is Deisal if its dyed its less the road tax. I'm an old yank so I won't parse words. Simple is better. Now get into what effect sulphur has. I put a tad of additive in just cause I do. Treat for evil growth and water. Then I have this big ass 2 micron filter. That's a whole other argument. Yep I stuck this big ass 2 micron filter up front. Surface area rules
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Old 20-10-2012, 09:46   #59
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Re: Gas Station Diesel vs Marine Diesel

A long time ago (far, far away) I worked in the refined products pipeline industry. We shipped fuel all over the US. From all the different refiners. When there was gasoline in the pipeline we'd ship from Shell, when they were done we'd swap valves and ship from Chevron, then Tosco... It all went into the same tank at the far end. The pipeline company made sure the material met industry spec, then mixed it all together.

At the truck rack (when loading out for delivery to the gas station) a Chevron truck driver would add a couple of quarts (for the whole truck) of Techron additive. A Shell driver would add their secret sauce, etc. The additives were way less than 1%, and otherwise the fuel is pretty much identical. Only if you live near a refinery (less than 50 miles) do you even stand a chance of pulling into a particular brand gas station and getting fuel that was refined by that company. Here in Northern California even Sacramento is served by piped fuel, there are no fleets of trucks running from the Bay Area to Sacramento carrying fuel, and that is only 70 miles up the (pretty good) road from the refineries in Richmond/Martinez.

Quality of what you get is all about the truck that hauls it the last few miles and the station that stores it and dispenses it. If they don't move a lot of fuel, have unlined tanks, allow condensation to develop, blah, blah, blah then you get crap in your fuel.
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Old 20-10-2012, 09:52   #60
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Re: Gas Station Diesel vs Marine Diesel

sulfur lubricates the gaskets in a diesel engine. less sulfur--less lube action. still gotta lube them gaskets--hence, must add additives now....
shell oil used to add most sulfur--could smell it.
with non-engineering legislators making engineering based laws, is difficult not to have problems with maintenance issues.

always filter your incoming diesel then add your choice of additives.
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