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Old 17-10-2011, 07:05   #16
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Re: Gas Station Diesel vs Marine Diesel

They are making way more than a buck a gallon.
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Old 17-10-2011, 08:56   #17
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Re: Gas Station Diesel vs Marine Diesel

One other note in my experience is that for small diesel-fired heaters ( I have a hydronic Webasto), the red dye "cokes" up the burner quicker which in turn requires more maintenance. Webasto reps will swear that this is not the case, but I have found it to be true. Last year my wife was on deployment, and we did not get underway during that time. I used 5 gallon jerry cans from the local gas station to periodically fill up the diesel tanks in lieu of marine diesel. I had MUCH less carbon build-up than previous seasons doing this. A guy from Sure Marine told me some folks burn kerosine for their heater because it burns even cleaner than non-dyed diesel.

The impact of red dye on a diesel aux engine must be very minimal, however...

Frank
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Old 17-10-2011, 11:06   #18
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Re: Gas Station Diesel vs Marine Diesel

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Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
It would seem, if all of you are correct, that the marina's are making an huge profit on there fuel. They buy the fuel cheaper because there is no road tax on it, and they sell it for more than you can buy it at the fueling station on land. I would half to guess that they are making over a dollar a gallon on every gallon they sell. Can that realy be right?
They do have high maintenance costs and are closely monitored by the EPA for spills & ect. The delivery of the fuel may have to come by barge, another expense.
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Old 20-10-2011, 14:50   #19
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Re: Gas Station Diesel vs Marine Diesel

Think insurance, EPA regulations and inspection, expense of the hoses and fittings (usually much longer than a gas station). Just my thoughts, Mike.
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Old 20-10-2011, 15:22   #20
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Re: gas station diesel vs marine diesel

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Originally Posted by rebel heart View Post
The cost is the difference between fuel dock and normal "gas station" diesel. If you're filling up a few cans it's no big deal, but for boats with 100+ (or 1000+) gallon tanks it's just much more convenient to pull up to the dock.
The main difference in price other than the usual price difference from one location to another, is that off road diesel is taxed differently than on the road diesel and that is why it is died the red color. Chuck
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Old 20-10-2011, 19:18   #21
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Re: gas station diesel vs marine diesel

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Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy View Post
The diesel from the gas station is almost invariably fresher, due to the rapid turnover and the fact that people who have diesel vehicles will converge on a station with a reliable supply.

The diesel tank in a marina might get filled less regularly...it depends on who is nearby.
I recently had my tank cleaned by an old timer who knows everything about diesel fuel. He suggested that I top up with jerry cans from the local gas station for this very reason, the diesel is fresher and cleaner.

Mike
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Old 20-10-2011, 19:22   #22
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Re: gas station diesel vs marine diesel

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Originally Posted by MikeinLA View Post
I recently had my tank cleaned by an old timer who knows everything about diesel fuel. He suggested that I top up with jerry cans from the local gas station for this very reason, the diesel is fresher and cleaner.

Mike
Now that they are adding bio to the mix that may be a reasonable suggestion.
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Old 20-10-2011, 21:35   #23
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Re: Gas Station Diesel vs Marine Diesel

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Originally Posted by Florida Mike View Post
Think insurance, EPA regulations and inspection, expense of the hoses and fittings (usually much longer than a gas station). Just my thoughts, Mike.
Our yacht club was looking into buying a marina. The current owners pulled the tanks a few years ago. They said they couldn't sell enough diesel to cover all of the costs associated with having fuel.
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Old 20-10-2011, 22:02   #24
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Re: gas station diesel vs marine diesel

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Now that they are adding bio to the mix that may be a reasonable suggestion.
An interesting side point: bio diesel, just like veggie oil, remains chemically active and forms all kinds of interesting by products with time, temperature and metal contact. It used to be that you didn't have to worry about leaving diesel sit but this is not the case if there is any bio content.
Does marine diesel have bio diesel in it or does this only apply to road fuel?
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Old 20-10-2011, 23:39   #25
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Re: gas station diesel vs marine diesel

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An interesting side point: bio diesel, just like veggie oil, remains chemically active and forms all kinds of interesting by products with time, temperature and metal contact. It used to be that you didn't have to worry about leaving diesel sit but this is not the case if there is any bio content.
Does marine diesel have bio diesel in it or does this only apply to road fuel?
Not sure about the diesel yet but definitely they're putting in ethanol in the gas in some of the Seattle fuel sites. I haven't bought diesel here for a couple years. http://www.portofeverett.com/docs/do...comparison.pdf

Yanmar states in their new motor manuals not to use more then 5% biodiesel. But I'm sure it won't be long before the greeds get their hands in the works.
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Old 21-10-2011, 03:32   #26
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Re: gas station diesel vs marine diesel

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Yanmar states in their new motor manuals not to use more then 5% biodiesel. But I'm sure it won't be long before the greeds get their hands in the works.
The biodiesel content itself is not the issue, the manufacturers are just covering their behind with the 5% figure. The problem is using half a tank of fuel in a season, topping up before winter storage and then parking the boat for 6 months. This would not be an issue with diesel but biodiesel has a recommended shelf life of 90 days. It isn't magically going to go bad at day 91 but in this example you have half a tank that is 180 days old and half a tank that is a year or older.
Of course if the marine fuel is 100% dino but sitting in their tanks for a couple of years because of slow turnover, that isn't too good either.
I do not know what the lesser evil is.
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Old 21-10-2011, 09:55   #27
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Re: gas station diesel vs marine diesel

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Originally Posted by Jd1 View Post
The biodiesel content itself is not the issue, the manufacturers are just covering their behind with the 5% figure. The problem is using half a tank of fuel in a season, topping up before winter storage and then parking the boat for 6 months. This would not be an issue with diesel but biodiesel has a recommended shelf life of 90 days. It isn't magically going to go bad at day 91 but in this example you have half a tank that is 180 days old and half a tank that is a year or older.
Of course if the marine fuel is 100% dino but sitting in their tanks for a couple of years because of slow turnover, that isn't too good either.
I do not know what the lesser evil is.
And that's the down fall of filling up jerry cans at gas stations. They are using the 5% bio. This is where it pays to have a scrubber system aboard on the larger boats (50 gal.+).
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Old 21-10-2011, 18:54   #28
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Re: gas station diesel vs marine diesel

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Originally Posted by MikeinLA View Post
I recently had my tank cleaned by an old timer who knows everything about diesel fuel. He suggested that I top up with jerry cans from the local gas station for this very reason, the diesel is fresher and cleaner.

Mike
For what it's worth, I get my gasoline this way and for this reason to run in my other, Atomic 4 powered boat. Sequential two-gallon jerry cans of fresh gas are better than a full tank taken on mid-season that's been in the buried tank for three months, I find. Since I started this, I haven't had to break down a carb to clean it.

Your mileage, no pun intended, may vary.
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Old 21-10-2011, 18:57   #29
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Re: gas station diesel vs marine diesel

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Originally Posted by Jd1 View Post
The biodiesel content itself is not the issue, the manufacturers are just covering their behind with the 5% figure. The problem is using half a tank of fuel in a season, topping up before winter storage and then parking the boat for 6 months. This would not be an issue with diesel but biodiesel has a recommended shelf life of 90 days. It isn't magically going to go bad at day 91 but in this example you have half a tank that is 180 days old and half a tank that is a year or older.
Of course if the marine fuel is 100% dino but sitting in their tanks for a couple of years because of slow turnover, that isn't too good either.
I do not know what the lesser evil is.
I support this logic. A side effect of me sharing my gas-powered sailboat is that I'm finally going through 10 gallons a season (hard for me as I tend to get sail up with a quickness). This means last year's fuel, even "stabilized", is finally burnt as Mammon intended, and "not old" stuff is topped up and stabilized for the spring.

The same applies for diesel on a chemical basis. Use it or lose it.
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Old 21-10-2011, 19:01   #30
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Re: Gas Station Diesel vs Marine Diesel

Where I live the jacked up price at the fuel dock in Sausalito, CA on red fuel is more than the clear fuel with the road tax. Too bad I cant put giant wheels on the boat and take it to a gas station. I would actually save money even by paying the road tax.
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