Gas in Diesel - help!!

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Ariose

Any time we've posted to this forum, we're always amazed at the volume of helpful responses.
We're digesting all the information, appreciate the warnings, and yes, have consulted with a lawyer (love having one of those species in the family), and the email to Yanmar went out just before we posted here.
Now we will continue to be cooperative and reasonable, and are pleased that the marina seems to be doing the same, and will wait for the mechanic's diagnosis & recommendations.
many, many thanks!

If you want this resolved fast and well without a lot of grief, the last word I would mention to anyone is the word "lawyer".

[a64pilot]

Yes don't mention it unless you have to, but it is nice to know where you stand legally, cause sometimes it's contrary to what you think

[Stumble]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

If you want this resolved fast and well without a lot of grief, the last word I would mention to anyone is the word "lawyer".

Maybe, but as a lawyer I always recommend calling one. For a couple hundred dollars I can give you my opinion, based on the facts you gave me, of the situation, and stay out of it otherwise. At least at this point you know what the various responsibilities and liabilities are, and what I wouldn't expect in negotiations.

Wether you need me for that negotiation or not is a completely different question. Here where the fuel dock sounds like they are taking responsibility I would probably advise you not to pay me to get deeper involved unless they tried to weasel out of paying.

Wether you need a new engine or not I cannot say, but on mybkat, I would want a yanmar certified mech to do the work, and at a minimum do whatever the manufacturer suggested. Then ask Yanmar if they will warranty the repair if the engine isn't replaced.

[skipmac]

On another note, Just in case it turns into new engine time, I would highly recommend you look into a Beta Marine. They are marinized Kubota tractor engines, very reliable, as simple a design as any modern diesel and designed for easy maintenance.

[Cheechako]

Here's an experience regarding lawyers and boats. In 1979 I ordered a new boat built to partial completion. I intended to finalize the interior and rig from a "floatable" boat. Work went slow, I gave progress payments along the way. Before it got done the builder decided to go into bankruptcy. Nothing got done for a while, but the owner kept saying he would try to get my work complete before the sheriff chained the door. I got a lawyer involved so at that point he simply said, get in line with the other creditors... of course my claim would have been very small compared with them. SO I sat sown around a table with him and his lawyer without my lawyer. I simply told them, "look , I'm just a little guy and got a lot of my resources in this boat. what can we do." His attitude changed completely, he finished the boat and loaned me a trailer to get it out of there. I could have won a battle with my lawyer... but lost the war...
OTOH, had I known what I know now, some research or a lawyer could have helped prior to ordering the boat. I could have paid for material, engine etc independently or got releases for materials along the way, so in bankruptcy it was mine not the yards...

[a64pilot]

Unfortunately we live in a world to where a hand shake is no longer acceptable, and I have heard at least one time too many "it's just business" as an excuse to screw the little guy out of what he has.
I have only once in my life been involved in a lawsuit and it was a class action one as I had a house built from substandard materials, and likely would not have been in that if the builder wasn't I discovered with hindsight dancing around until a time limit was reached at which time he grinned and said so sue me. I won, but somewhat by good luck as I had been deployed and he didn't know that time didn't count.
But I dislike the need for lawyers, but I have learned over the years that educating yourself is not a bad thing, at least then you can make decisions based on facts not emotions and hope.

[leftbrainstuff]

Older diesels with pintle injectors would combust just about anything remotely resembling a lighweight oil. Military diesels were regularly subject to poor quality, contaminated fuel.

In the auto industry many of the development vehicles use transportation fuel. Which is anything resembling fuel that is fed back into the bowsers. All sorts of crap in there and rarely any engine problems even on the modern diesels.

Engine life, from contaminated diesel is reduced due to excessive carbon buildup and contamination of the fuel system.

Diesels that get fed gasoline usually runaway and destroy themselves. A piece of plank was standard on many old farmers tractors to block the air intake when they got fed gasoline by mistake. Probably the most unloved of all engine powered vehicles and they run forever.

The checks I would make before hitting the panic button are:

1) Was it still running or did it stop?
2) Was it blowing smoke and what color was it just before you stopped it?
3) inspect fuel and oil filters and oil quality. Section them, pull them apart and have a good look. Let the fuel in the filters seperate. What's present? Diesel, gasoline, water or particulates
4) Any leaks in the fuel system?

All the above can be done with simple tools and a white bedsheet.

Post pics and results of your analysis and then we can comment further.

Internal engine inspection is fun but oil inspection will highlight issues and give lots of information on the condition of the engine.

The fuel system is usually the one that suffers more. The fix is to replace the injection pump, lift pump, injectors, filters and clean the tank and lines.

I fill my own tanks from jerry jugs. Not so convenient but it means my ex Army Transport Corp dad doean't chew me out. It also allows me to filter at the point of fill.

As the marina is at fault and agreed to foot the bill then it might be simpler to replace rather than repair.

In a cruising sailboat I prefer our old mechanical perkins. No electronics. All mechanical.

[dlymn]

If the marina agrees to replace, get a new motor even if you have to sweeten the pot. Don't go for a similar hours used motor; your just risking future trouble. The easiest way is to replace with the same motor if possible, as you know it and you won't have to change engine mounts, shaft alignments electrics, fuel supply, water supply etc.

[iancoombe]

I had a hino truck that was filled with gas when it only had a 1/8 of a tank, it ran for an hour the died we drained the tank added fresh diesel and it started without flushing the lines, its now done 700,000 kms(500, 000 miles) since and is still running fine. Perhaps we were lucky but I believe it stopped as soon as the gas percentage rose. Anyhow you maybe lucky.

[gjordan]

If the boat was motoring for 8 hours I think it is safe to assume the two fuels were well mixed by the motion. If the boat was sitting at a dock they might separate out, but not at sea. Something to consider with a new replacement engine is that it will probably come with the high tech computer controlled fuel system. They are wonderful and give better fuel burn an probably easier on the internals, but like so many things in this day and age, you are dependent on a computer. Tow truck drivers make lots of money towing almost new cars back to the dealerships from bum computers. It is not a high percentage, but simple reliability in a small boat would make me not want the new electron dependent system. I am not recommending what to do, only giving the OP something to consider. _____Grant.

[out42]

Obvious question which I didn't see addressed: did you connect up a clean supply of diesel after the incident to see if the engine would run on that?
If the engine hadn't actually seized (I'd be surprised if it did), then running it should give you a lot of auditory clues as to the condition of the bottom end and pistons. The damage is going to be pretty much proportional to the noise!
If it smokes more, then I guess injectors are gone or the pump is damaged. The piston rings are unlikely to have suffered so blow-by won't be a problem.
If it runs just like its old self, then don't worry would be my suggestion.
If you can't get it to run, then I fear the answer is becoming obvious......
Hope it works out OK.

[FionaJC]

I put Gas in a diesel engine (Peugeot XD2) and then switched to diesel. It ran but was lumpy and terrible to start. I just kept at it till it started and kept adding diesel. Eventually as all was well it worked its way through. I did it again a year later putting in two jerricans which were handed to me. I only noticed the gas smell at the end. I disconnected the fuel feed to the engine, started it on a spare tin of diesel and then reconnected it. I ran it on the berth in gear until I ran out of fuel. That was all two years ago and no problems since. I have also tried running the engine on water and on another occasion without coolant for 20 mins. I love that engine but it thinks I hate it. So maybe just trying to start it on diesel after checking no foaming oil perhaps?

[Cadence]

I am surprised you didn't throw a rod right through the side of the block, I have seen that. If you didn't you may be lucky enough to rebuild. Probably played hell with the bearings and the rods at best. I would find a reputable shop to look at it, on the bench, Not a shade tree mechanic,

I would not be optimistic that parts and labor costs would be less than replacement.
Best of luck.

[vlathom]

I'd like to know what the resolution of this is. We could all benefit from what you found out, including if repair was possible, etc.

[Comix Bay]

I've always thought and been led to believe that "LAWYERS were GOD"