Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 08-11-2014, 07:07   #61
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,068
Re: Flushing the FW side

A way to run probably rather large heaters off of an engine would be to bypass the engines heat exchanger, using the heaters of course to cool the engine.
Really bad things could happen if you don't watch the engine temp close of course.
Technically possible is the addition of a thermostat in the heat exchanger, making water bypass it to the heaters until a certain temp was reached, you would want this t stat set higher than the engines primary one, and it's function would be different, current engine t stat restricts flow, this one would bypass, not restrict.

Not worth the considerable work to do though, unless you just want a really neat project.

I would not go to a higher pressure cap, lord knows what possible weak links you could find doing that, it won't raise temp either as was posted, just raise boiling point of the coolant.
Water is about the best coolant there is, interestingly anti-freeze isn't as good a coolant as water, the higher the percentage of anti-freeze, the less heat the coolant can absorb, but you need the anti-freeze for corrosion protection more than anything else. I only bring this up as I have seen people run very high percentages of anti-freeze thinking that's best, but have engines that overheat or very nearly so.
__________________

__________________
a64pilot is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2014, 09:17   #62
Registered User
 
Strait Shooter's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Straits of Juan De Fuca
Boat: Ingrid
Posts: 786
Re: Flushing the FW side

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
A way to run probably rather large heaters off of an engine would be to bypass the engines heat exchanger, using the heaters of course to cool the engine.
Really bad things could happen if you don't watch the engine temp close of course.
Technically possible is the addition of a thermostat in the heat exchanger, making water bypass it to the heaters until a certain temp was reached, you would want this t stat set higher than the engines primary one, and it's function would be different, current engine t stat restricts flow, this one would bypass, not restrict.

Not worth the considerable work to do though, unless you just want a really neat project.

I would not go to a higher pressure cap, lord knows what possible weak links you could find doing that, it won't raise temp either as was posted, just raise boiling point of the coolant.
Water is about the best coolant there is, interestingly anti-freeze isn't as good a coolant as water, the higher the percentage of anti-freeze, the less heat the coolant can absorb, but you need the anti-freeze for corrosion protection more than anything else. I only bring this up as I have seen people run very high percentages of anti-freeze thinking that's best, but have engines that overheat or very nearly so.

I hooked up the heaters last night and was a little apprehensive quite honestly. The apprehension was not well founded however and the heaters both work superbly, while at the same time, the engine temp stayed the same. As Jim mentions though, it's a dynamic system and I wonder about the summer temps and what that will do to it. I will continue to monitor it and look for deviations. These are truck, bus, tank heaters, so ya, engine coolant driven. An interesting note, while looking at the shop manual for the engine I noticed that the thermostats in the land based engines are all 10*f higher than the marine engine thermostat. Haven't figured out why yet, they have a different cooling system (all fresh water), and a heater system. Can anyone think of why else they would be different?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbunyard View Post
I suppose the most important thing to realize and remember is that the
cooling system is dynamic and operates within a variable set of environmental conditions. If the raw water is at 45F and the ambient temp is at 90F the engine operating temp, even with all other factors controlled for, will be different than if those two values are reversed. The main reason for the t'stat is to keep the engine operating at as close to a specific temperature as possible.

I didn't mean to give the wrong impression; given the time of year (if you're in the Pacific Northwest), I'd say the temperatures you're running at are at the upper end, in the summer they'll almost certainly run hotter. As A64 says, consider it a little reserve cooling capacity.

As for increasing the operating temperature of the engine there are two sure ways; increasing the load and changing the temperature rating of the t'stat. I would strongly recommend against going to a hotter t'stat, efficiency is one thing, running on the ragged edge between efficiency and overheating is quite another. Increasing the pressure rating on the cap will increase the boiling point of the coolant, but unless the transfer or production of heat within the engine is changed, the operating temperature will remain the same.

If the heaters you plan to install use engine coolant to heat them, I would expect them to make a difference in the engine operating temp, how much depends on the heaters efficiency. It is conceivable that you'd have to change the t'stat to compensate and if so the radiator cap too, but I'd be very leery. My experience with aluminum head engines is that they don't like overheating, so a comfortable temperature cushion is prudent. Better some kind of volume modulating valve (if the heaters don't already have one) and an extra sweater....

Can't imagine any problem (other than forgetting to close them) with a drain valve instead of a plug, I've got 1/4" ball valves on the block, the exhaust riser and the muffler.

So far it looks like I won't have to change the the radiator cap or the thermostat. We'll see what happen as some of those variables change.

The Dickinson stove adds a variable as well. After running the system and playing with it all night, it would appear that the Dickinson has little impact on system temps. The run is so far un-insulated, and far enough away from the engine to have little to no impact. Although it does boost the heat for the final heater in the system.

I believe I'm starting to get this system working, but have learned to be cautious in my celebrations of my accomplishments

Time to put anti freeze back in, and go for some more sea trials. I'll keep you posted.


John
__________________

__________________
"Waste your money and youíre only out of money, but waste your time and youíve lost a part of your life.Ē (Michael Leboeuf)
Strait Shooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-01-2015, 15:46   #63
Registered User
 
4arch's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Baltimore
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 400
Posts: 232
Images: 1
Re: Flushing the FW side

I am planning to flush my Perkins M50 with Rydlyme using the bucket and 12 volt pump method. I already took the tube stack out of the heat exchanger manifold and found a moderately heavy rust colored coating over the entire interior of the manifold with a heavy buildup of sludge of the same color settled to the bottom. The tube stack had a lighter orange color buildup heavily caked around all the tubes. I soaked the tube stack and got the caked-on debris removed. Now I need to get the sludge out of the lower chambers of the exchanger manifold and a few questions have popped up in my head:
  1. Rydlyme concentration - straight from the bottle or cut with water?
  2. Procedure - I'm planning on taking one of the water heater hoses off the engine and attaching it to the pump and then putting a temporary hose from the barb on the engine where the hose was removed into the bucket. This should create a loop and the thermostat will be removed. My concern is the engine water (coolant) pump - how do the Rydlyme and subsequent water flushes get into and around the pump and circulated all through the engine and cooling system with the pump's impeller in the way and not running?
  3. Coolants - there seem to be a dizzying array of options currently on the market. Color alone doesn't necessarily seem to mean anything anymore and other than avoiding dex-cool, itís hard to get a straight answer out of anyone about what the best coolant is to put back in. Any specific recommendations on products? This engine has an aluminum block.
__________________
4arch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-01-2015, 16:01   #64
Registered User
 
Greatketch33's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 148
I believe Rydlyme is aggressive on aluminum. If an engine has a heat exchanger bundle that encased in an aluminum housing, the part may become pitted.

Check to be sure.

Just friendly tip.
__________________

__________________
Greatketch33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
flushing

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What is it Called When a Boat Leans Side to Side? chucklet321 Monohull Sailboats 36 01-11-2012 20:23
Dual helms side by side Bluewaters2812 Propellers & Drive Systems 24 28-10-2012 05:10
For Sale: Jewelry Store and Home Side by Side ChesapeakeGem Classifieds Archive 0 07-09-2012 13:52



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 20:33.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.