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Old 17-10-2018, 07:09   #1
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Flooded bilge - Perkins 4107 engine bilge fall of sea water

I work in IT and we often talk about three steps to a disaster - i.e. Unsinkable, reckless speed & iceberg = get the idea? How about not greasing sterngland properly, failed bilge pump and delay returning to boat?



This is embarrasing, Before I left my boat after a 8 hour trip I gave the sterngland greaser a twist but it was at the bottom so I didnt re-fill it and screw it until pressure. I left the boat several weeks due to illness. I then had a call to say my bow was six inches below the boot top.


I went down and found the water level 6" above the floor on the lower deck. The Bilge pump had failed. I pumped it out and discovreed that the Perkins 4107 was in water up to the centre of the Jabsco pump to the temp detector in the exhaust.


The fuel / air side was not submerged but the starter motor and dipstick was underwater.


I have used a Pela extractor and removed around 10 - 15 litres of water and oil. I took it to the bottom and refilled with clean oil and changed the oil filter. I havent tried to start it as the battery has gone down to 5V.


I am leaving it a week and then I will do an oil change and try to start it.


My questions, eventually, 1. Is an oil flush worth it? I have read good and bad about these. What other problems can I anticipate / deal with? ( I know the starter motor is an unknown.
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Old 17-10-2018, 08:31   #2
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Re: Flooded bilge - Perkins 4107 engine bilge fall of sea water

Would at least change the oil and filters a couple of time in the engine. Also check your gear box for water. If in the gear box change that oil also.

If possible pull the starter motor,clean it and spray down w/W40. I believe you have an external solenoid on that starter. If so, take it apart, clean the internal contacts and spray w/WD40.


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Old 17-10-2018, 09:17   #3
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Re: Flooded bilge - Perkins 4107 engine bilge fall of sea water

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Would at least change the oil and filters a couple of time in the engine. Also check your gear box for water. If in the gear box change that oil also.
Bill O.

Thanks for confirming my thoughts. The gearbox did have a fill of water when I was testing the engine before installation and it took two oil changes and filters to sort it so I plan to do the same.


I have two filters on the way plus more oil for engine and gearbox. Good point about the solenoid. I'll just replace it.



Im hoping that the water would sit below the engine oil in the sump so It wont have caused too much damage and as I drained it the oild sludge would coat everything as the water level lowered. Thats why I just filled up with some new oild just to mix it before I get serious.


I do wonder about an oil flush. Its SAE20 and Ive seen good and bad things, know anything about it?
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Old 17-10-2018, 09:47   #4
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Re: Flooded bilge - Perkins 4107 engine bilge fall of sea water

Old school they used kerosene to flush motors, then denatured alcohol to then kerosene again. Biggest problem with that is to clean the motor of kerosene residue, but usually done w/ the several oil changes. The main of concern would be salts in critical areas. Not certain re: any newer products and removal of salt.

A new solenoid isn't a bad idea and we carry a spare one for our Perkins 4.236. Would still try to take the old one apart, clean it up and keep it for a spare.

If you can, try to get the motor running as soon as possible to try to burn out any lingering water.


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Old 17-10-2018, 10:36   #5
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Re: Flooded bilge - Perkins 4107 engine bilge fall of sea water

I’ve never done it but you could try a seafoam crank flush. It’s supposed to be safe to just add to the oil so it shouldn’t be the end of the world if you don’t get it all out.
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Old 17-10-2018, 10:52   #6
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Re: Flooded bilge - Perkins 4107 engine bilge fall of sea water

Maybe for the future think about having two completely independent bilge pumps? Here's what we did when refitting the boat:


We have a very deep bilge (glassfiber keel stump) that is separated into two compartments by a divider that is about 20cm high. Each compartment has its own automatic pump, with a separate hose and outlet, separate wiring, separate bilge pump panel with separate fuse and separate battery (one pump is on the main bank, one on the reserve bank).



If one pump fails or is not strong enough for the water flow coming in, it will overflow over the divider so the second pump takes over or assists. If one pump starts i can immediately see if water is coming in from the area forward or aft of the bilge which cuts the area to search for a leak in half.
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Old 17-10-2018, 12:14   #7
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Re: Flooded bilge - Perkins 4107 engine bilge fall of sea water

I would not wait a week. I would get a fresh battery and start the engine now! You've already drained the oil/water and refilled, but you'll want to do that a few more times but run the engine in between (assuming the starter motor still works!) last thing you want to do is let the engine sit now that the engine has been drained of the water. With the water gone but the internals still exposed to water, there is a serious risk of corrosion starting. I'd get that engine running ASAP and get it nice and hot to drive off any trapped water.

How old is your stuffing box that it has a grease cup? That might be added to the list for modernizing to a stuffing box that doesn't need that type of maintenance.
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Old 17-10-2018, 12:26   #8
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Re: Flooded bilge - Perkins 4107 engine bilge fall of sea water

I’ve had salt water in an engine due to a failed water pump seal. A Westerbeke.

Lots of white emulsion under the valve cover.
I changed the oil.
Warmed up the engine for ten minutes. Changed the oil.
Ran for twenty minutes. Changed the oil.
Ran for twenty minutes. Changed the oil.
Ran for twenty minutes. Changed the oil.
Ran for twenty minutes. Changed the oil.

5 oil changes in a row.

Had an analysis done about 50 hours later. Clean.

Phew.

Lots of oil changes in your near future but not fatal.
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Old 17-10-2018, 13:11   #9
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Re: Flooded bilge - Perkins 4107 engine bilge fall of sea water

Thanks for all the advice guys, thats just what I was looking for. I will be firing it up ASAP. Im getting the filters and oil tomorrow. I have thought about the dual bilge pump and the new Rule's come with non return valves so I am looking at it. I am also setting up an Arduino and a GSM module to tell me about the quantity of pump runs and other problems.
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Old 17-10-2018, 13:42   #10
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Re: Flooded bilge - Perkins 4107 engine bilge fall of sea water

That the engine wasn't run with water in it is very good.


Engine flush is generally for cleaning dirty, gunked up engines, 50/50 diesel/engine oil is very good for this, but if you have the old style rope crank seal, probably not a good idea. Multiple oil changes are the better choice.


If the starter went under in salt water, unless you disassemble it completely, wash it in fresh water, and dry it thoroughly, it will fail at some point.
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Old 18-10-2018, 11:17   #11
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Re: Flooded bilge - Perkins 4107 engine bilge fall of sea water

After changing all fluids run under load ASAP
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Old 18-10-2018, 12:34   #12
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Re: Flooded bilge - Perkins 4107 engine bilge fall of sea water

Said it before--will say ity again--I had a separate sump for the drips from the stuffing box, It was a plastic storage container, heavy duty, and in it I mounted a bilge pump and a float switch. This sat under the end of the stuffing box, to which a lip of epoxy putty was moulded. That will be the first pump. If that fails, you will have a second much larger pump mounted midships above or beside the keelson.
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Old 18-10-2018, 14:05   #13
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Re: Flooded bilge - Perkins 4107 engine bilge fall of sea water

Not greasing the sterngland?

Am I missing something here?

Never heard of greasing any sternglands, but I have heard of cascading problems.
You have water ingress. Packing glands don’t need grease.
I certainly wouldn’t fix a flooded engine without fixing the flood.
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Old 18-10-2018, 15:09   #14
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Re: Flooded bilge - Perkins 4107 engine bilge fall of sea water

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcmm View Post
I would not wait a week. I would get a fresh battery and start the engine now! You've already drained the oil/water and refilled, but you'll want to do that a few more times but run the engine in between (assuming the starter motor still works!) last thing you want to do is let the engine sit now that the engine has been drained of the water. With the water gone but the internals still exposed to water, there is a serious risk of corrosion starting. I'd get that engine running ASAP and get it nice and hot to drive off any trapped water.

How old is your stuffing box that it has a grease cup? That might be added to the list for modernizing to a stuffing box that doesn't need that type of maintenance.
What he said, Gotta get it started asap. Plenty of diesel shops use flushing oil so must be ok.
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Old 18-10-2018, 15:33   #15
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Re: Flooded bilge - Perkins 4107 engine bilge fall of sea water

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Originally Posted by Minggat View Post
Not greasing the sterngland?

Am I missing something here?

Never heard of greasing any sternglands, but I have heard of cascading problems.
You have water ingress. Packing glands don’t need grease.
I certainly wouldn’t fix a flooded engine without fixing the flood.
I have a packing gland that requires grease, one for the bushing that packs, the second in the stern tube bushing and the third one is directly in the packing. The shaft is 2 1/2" diameter. Because this is a tugboat, it has to be checked every day... at shut down, grease and tighten the packing until it stops dripping... ready to start again and no water in the bilges.
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