Fischer Panda starter riddle

[svHyLyte]

Originally Posted by Bruce Beard

One other caution about this job...
The three bolts that secure the starter to the engine are two different lengths.
The difference is subtle but important to get right.
If you put the long bolt in the short bolt spot, you will bind the flywheel.
Just pay attention and you will be fine...

The shortest bolt goes in the position closest to the cylinder head on the side adjacent to the exhaust manifold (unfortunately, directly above the flywheel/ring gear).

FWIW...

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by theglo

Thanks for the reply. The bushing is pretty beat up. Replacing it, I believe, would be major surgery. I just want to rule out the starter being the wrong one before I start taking apart the engine to remove and replace that bushing. That is my other next step.

The simplest solution is always the best starting point.
In 35 years of repair, the one thing I have learned, don't make it complicated.
Cheers,
SV Cloud Duster

[DeepFrz]

Originally Posted by theglo

This has been another example of when everyone tells me I'm wrong (about the nose cone); I am actually wrong.

Don't ya just hate it when that happens. It so much more fun when you are right.

[svHyLyte]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Don't ya just hate it when that happens. It so much more fun when you are right.

Somewhat perhaps, tho' one should take consolation in learning from others' mistakes/experience rather than having to make one's own, no?

[theglo]

Folks,

Thanks again for your help thus far. Today I put in a fresh bushing and then reinstalled the starter with the new gasket and three bolts paying attention to get them in the correct holes for size.

When trying to start it the same thing is happening. It is as if the starter gear is not completely engaging in the flywheel gear - only brushing up against it. The flywheel turns a bit, but not what it should, and it is very grindy. Do these need to be aligned or something? This same thing was happening with a different starter. I've attached a video to show the sound:

Thanks!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfk4rAbahFE

[jimbunyard]

Are you sure the crown gear is still attached to the flywheel? It is a shrink fit and could be cracked somewhere around its' perimeter.




You may also be able to remove the solenoid, mount the starter and operate the engagement lever by hand to see if the pinion is actually engaging completely with the ring gear by comparing the throw with the starter unmounted to the throw with it mounted....

The gear in your original picture looks a bit worn, but not worn enough to prevent engagement if you have a full throw by the solenoid.

[svHyLyte]

It sounds like the starter pinion gear may not be fully engaging the flywheel ring gear and could be a situation where the starter gear shaft is not fully extending; or, it could be that the bushing within the starter itself is damaged and allowing the shaft to displace laterally once the pinion gear is engaged and attempting to apply torque to the ring gear.

Did you have the starter examined to ensure that it is in good shape? In our case, because of the missing bushing in the case, the bushing in the starter itself was damaged such that one could move the pinion gear shaft sideways somewhat by hand with the starter on the work bench. That should not be possible. Further, if you apply power to the solenoid only, you should be able to measure the "throw" of the pinion gear shaft. If the contacts to the solenoid are corroded or fouled, it may not be fully extending the pinion gear shaft. (That would be evidenced by wear of the tops of the teeth in the ring gear and the bottom edges of the pinion gear.)

Lastly, tho' unlikely, examine the area under the pinion gear shaft bearing in the case to the extent possible to ensure that nothing has moved around within the electrics case itself and may be obstructing/preventing the pinion gear shaft from fully extending. (Not likely but then nothing is impossible.)

Unfortunately, the foregoing are the last of the arrows in my quiver for this hunt old son. Sorry...

[theglo]

I really appreciate your help. I'll look into these things and report back my results. Heading to the Dry Tortugas for a week long sail so it may be a bit.

THANKS!

[theglo]

Well, unfortunately it is not just a wrong starter. Yesterday I was looking at things again and it seemed the flywheel was about 1/16" too far in the wrong direction and preventing the starter from engaging.

I settled on taking this engine apart and rebuilding it. I figured the worst case I would learn more about diesels and the best case I'd repair it.

When I pulled off the valve cover I found a broken bushing and one of the push rods and springs was loose in the chamber. When I removed the head I found the catastrophic damage. Any ideas what happened here?

I'm going to continue disassembling this. I'm assuming its just educational at this point.

Thanks again!

[Sailmonkey]

That’s what happens when a single cylinder engine running at 3600 rpm sucks a valve.

[Uncle Bob]

I'm not normally psychic, however I think I see a new genset in your future !

[Bruce Beard]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

That’s what happens when a single cylinder engine running at 3600 rpm sucks a valve.

More accurately, that is what happens when any engine “sucks a valve”.
The nice thing about a single cylinder engine is that you have far fewer parts to replace...
I have seen multi cylinder engines break chunks out of valves where the parts began moving through the intake to wreck havoc on other cylinders. It is all bad...

[svHyLyte]

Well--Here's the really bad news.

On December 14th, Farymann discontinued all operations and, for all intents and purposes, is going out of business. Other than the parts that may be in US warehouses, no more parts are/will be coming from Germany. I have been waiting for a delivery of top-end parts from Germany--valves, piston, rings, valve guides, seals and gaskets etc. In response to my order status inquiry yesterday, Farmann's US office informed me of the foregoing and that they can no longer obtain the parts I (and you obviously) need to restore our engines. I have asked the US Office if they can provide a listing of the OEM's that machined the parts for Farymann in hopes that one might go to them directly but thus far they have not responded.

Considering the number of Generators manufactured by Fischer-Panda based upon the Farymann W18 engines, FP may have some sway in the event and I am hopefully waiting for word on the matter but, as Farymann's current owner--I believe to be Fuji Heavy Industries--has decided to close down the company's operations (evidently having failed to obtain a defense contract for engines in Germany), it may be immune from any entities/action by FP. We shall see I guess...

Fingers crossed!

[svHyLyte]

Originally Posted by svHyLyte

...


Considering the number of Generators manufactured by Fischer-Panda based upon the Farymann W18 engines, FP may have some sway in the event and I am hopefully waiting for word on the matter but, as Farymann's current owner--I believe to be Fuji Heavy Industries--has decided to close down the company's operations (evidently having failed to obtain a defense contract for engines in Germany), it may be immune from any entities/action by FP. We shall see I guess...

CORRECTION:


The above information that I posted earlier is incorrect. I have learned that Fuji sold Farymann to AGP Power ApS of Ballerup, Denmark, in the fairly recent past. The purchase was reportedly premised on the assumption that Farymann would be the winner of a major defense contract without which it would not be viable. Unfortunately, it was evidently not awarded the contract hence its pending demise. Reportedly, all of its employees save attorneys have been furloughed or otherwise let go (not an easy trick in Germany supposedly).

As for FP, evidently the Company has a store of spare parts--again in Germany--and is working with Farymann officials to obtain more from that Company's suppliers/contractors and FP vows to support its customers to the maximum extent possible (tho' that may take awhile, eh?).


FWIW...