Feel like I'm flipping a coin - rebuild or repower

[a64pilot]

99 times out of 100 a Diesel begins to show its age by first being hard starting in the morning due to low compression and will sit there at idle with a little blue smoke, let it idle for 20 min or so and when you apply throttle and a load, it will really smoke then for a minute or two but pretty much clear up.
I ran an International 574 farm tractor for 20 years after it showing these signs, then sold it a starting of getting ready to cruise.
I tell people and firmly believe that if a Diesel starts well, runs well and makes good power, and does not smoke up the neighborhood, its not worn.
Only thing that would concern me with your motor is the raw water cooled part, however a good mechanic with just a little disassembly should be able to tell the extent of corrosion you have.
If you repower, have a fat wallet, cause sometimes the cost of the engine is just the beginning, sometimes there is a whole lot more than has to be changed.
Although I have heard that Beta has it figured out pretty well, making adapter etc to keep engine mounts the same etc.

[flyingfin]

Install a brand new Yanmar with more hp! Since you will spend lots of time powering the ICW, and then cruising places where parts are only available via FedEx, you will be able to spend your valuable time enjoying the cruise, not chasing and fixing problems.

[basssears]

Originally Posted by Cthoops

Again, my greatest concern is being stuck somewhere unable to find a part because there are no longer any in existence, but I suppose at that point we could put in a new one. If we were someplace where a new install wasn't possible, I guess we could sail somewhere else. It is a sailboat after all. Perhaps I'm worrying over something that is extremely unlikely to happen (i.e. being in a place where I can't get a part or a new engine).

I started following your blog late so not clear on exactly where you're planning to head once you drop the lines... one factor to keep in mind is whether you're going places they could repair a new engine if something happened with it? Seems almost anywhere has "the guy" who can help with repairs on older, basic diesels (as they are relatively simple), but your brand new Beta starts having problems are you going to need to find someone with a computer science degree to fix it?

My 2 cents, worth less...

-- Bass

[Dougtiff]

Having been thru the drum of keeping an older Volvo MD2 running [raw water cooled] in the Tropics, i would suggest upgrading, firstly the raw water cooled engine was designed for Temperate water temps and corrosion is a biggee in the warm water tropics, then as already stated, parts can be an issue, plus a much quieter engine will be god-sent when you end up motoring for hours, which you will do, you will obtain better fuel burn on top of it all, if your budget can stand it , replace it.

[darylat8750]

I was in the "check it over and repair as nesessary" camp until I read raw water cooled. That old with raw water cooling heading to the tropics..... If the purse can stand it: Beta.

And get a good spare parts package for the Beta.

[lesterbutch]

Originally Posted by Cthoops

I appreciate all of the input from everyone.

A few more details: There's no hour meter on the engine so I don't know how many hours it has. It's original to the boat (so 40 years old) and raw water cooled. Although we are newbies when it comes to diesels, we have signed up for a hands on weekend course next month so that should help. We also have the Calder book. We do know how to change the oil, fuel filters, and impeller (and how to bleed the engine), and have done those things for spring prep the past two seasons. It starts immediately even after sitting over the winter, and the only issue we've had so far was the result of a cracked washer on the fuel filter which allowed air to get sucked in.

Last night we spent some time speaking with the Beta dealer here and left leaning towards buying a new one, but this morning after reading the replies here I'm once again leaning towards keeping this engine after getting a thorough inspection from our mechanic (plus the oil analysis).

Again, my greatest concern is being stuck somewhere unable to find a part because there are no longer any in existence, but I suppose at that point we could put in a new one. If we were someplace where a new install wasn't possible, I guess we could sail somewhere else. It is a sailboat after all. Perhaps I'm worrying over something that is extremely unlikely to happen (i.e. being in a place where I can't get a part or a new engine).

Just in reading this dissertation I can tell you, if it were me, I would go with a new engine! Rebuilding is always iffy, I made that mistake twice and it cost me both times! There is a little thing called "Peace of Mind" how much is that worth? certainly a new engine can also fail but what are the odds against it? If your hundreds of miles off shore and it fails, what then. If you have an alternative it's O.K. (Sails not an outboard motor, they burn way too much fuel to be useful!). So look at your case and err on the safe Side!

[exMaggieDrum]

My previous 1978 boat had the venerable Ford Lehman 80hp motor. Way over 10,000 hours. It was built like a tank, had fresh water cooling, and was well maintained by me and the previous owner. I put in new injectors and kept the old ones as spares after checking/adjusting them at the shop where I worked (not as a diesel mechanic but we did lots of rebuilds/replaces). These engines are famous for long life but I knew at some point I would have to get an upper end job but never had to and I don't think the current owner, who is currently half around the world with the same motor, has had one yet. Good compression.

I carried a starter spare that came with the boat and found out it had the wrong flange on it and would not work in remote Pacific area. I had a spare raw water pump and a rebuild kit for it too. I replaced the exhaust elbow and carried heat exchanger spares. I replaced the transmission with a rebuilt one. (I did not keep the old tranny as a spare lol.) Rebuild replacements for much of the motor are getting harder and harder to find though.

However, if it were me with your boat I would replace the motor with a Beta. You can get more HP, a very good thing, and a lot quieter engine. I don't like older raw water cooled engines as I have seen too many of them with major issues that can be hard to find without a rebuild. Parts are widely available for the Beta. The worst part (most expensive) might be modifying the engine mounting stringers along with physically removing and putting in the new one. But you have a small motor which makes it much easier (and cheaper). The new motor won't be cheap of course.

You would have greater peace of mind, better access to parts, quieter motoring, and it would look all spiffy and new. It's great to look at the new gear. Of course, you have to balance out all that against the total cost of a replacement. If you do keep it use all the advice by the others previously. That would be cheaper than a replacement. You could do some research on whether parts are available for the motor too.

Yanmar and Volvo parts are notoriously expensive so if it were me I would go with the Beta.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

That engine could die tomorrow, or could still be chugging away after your long gone.
I would definitely go with the mechanic and maybe have the dinghy outboard as a back up on a bracket just in case.
If he is a good, honest mechanic his expert opinion after inspecting the engine will be far more valuable than any guess I could make.

If it runs well and if parts are still available, I'd leave it. My engine is 30 yrs old, runs like a top though and I have decided to keep it as long as I can get repair parts

^^I like this advice. Dingy OB on a bracket, stores well there anyway. But as you mention, the Y series are rough little engines and iffy at this point I think. If it's not too encumbering.... replace it!
The Y series is the horizontal cylinder engine right?
You could have that little engine rebuilt pretty cheaply I would think, but it's probably salt water cooled (right?) and some times you just cant make a "silk purse out of a sows ear"
If it were a Perkins, Volvo, or even an early Yanmar vertical type engine I would likely say "go for it".

[markwesti]

I like the blog. CThoops . That's interesting about the cracked washer , I assume you are talking about the filter canister that bolts to the engine that holds the small filter . I once had a cracked washer but it was the one on the banjo fitting to the injector .

[Elie]

A few years ago, I bought a Yanmar YS8, witch is essentially the same engine as the one in question. I wanted to transform it into a generator. Since I was not sure of its state, I decided to open it and renew it. To my surprise, I discovered that it was in prety good shape. Anyway, since at it, I replaced the rings, honed the cylinder walls, lapped the valves and seats. A new set of gaskets and reassembled it. It cost me less then $150 to do that job. It started and run like a top on the first try. A real pleasure.
I discovered that rebuilding was very simple, that this engine is very well and strongly built. In fact there is not much to fail in such engine. It took me about 1 hour(beer time counted) to disassemble, cylinder job about 1/2 hour and it was done, head cleaning and lapping valves(remember not even valves stem seals in this engine!), took me 2 hours at most. Reassembly: less then one hour:there is not much to wory about this little motor.
My recommandation: try to do it yourself. You may send the head to an expert shop if you want. And you will have an almost new and certainly reliable engine. For less than the shipping cost of a new engine. And the new one don't even cme close to the sturdiness of this little monster, made to last ...

[River Cruiser]

IMHO the older engines were engineered to last, the new engineered to a price point. If your mechanic and oil samples give it a clean bill of health I would buy some spares of the wear and maintenance parts and go cruising.

[Capt. Tom]

Hi,
Replaced a qm yanmar with a yanmar 2gm20f and could not have been more pleased. The raw cooled engines have a limited life.

[Scout 30]

Before you decide I'd talk to Joe DeMers, the owner of Sound Marine Diesel. He is a Beta dealer & very helpful. We ran a YSM 8 for years &, like your motor, was raw water cooled. Running saltwater through your block is always troubling & considering a new Beta is prudent. As has been noted previously some of the new Diesels are computer controlled common rail engines. I would avoid them. Betas are still simple mechanically controlled engines & are known to be very reliable. The ugly truth about cruising is that sailboats are in fact motorsailers & cruisers often motor more than they sail. A good reliable diesel will make the journey much more enjoyable & a lot less stressful. Plus, when you sell the boat it'll be worth considerably more so you'll get "some" of the cost of repowering back.

Welcome to Sound Marine Diesel

[Dash-Robo]

I have supplied reconditioned and new diesel and petrol engines for over 10 yrs
I have faced the same decisions below my senerio
Olympic 40 third owner third engine installation , priced reconditioning Volvo 4d40 (perkins re badged) 1000 hours 7years old Quote $8000 plus $4000 installation and removal 3 month warranty option 2 New Vetus 4m55 (Mitsubishi ) 52hp Turbo 5 year Warranty, new prop shaft and box. total cost inc rnr $14000

Choice Vetus 4M55
5 Year Warranty
Benefits International Warranty Coverage
SOLAS design engine for sailing Vessels
Recognized Engine Designer and Builder Mitsubishi
Spare Parts n Availability

[elandra65]

Unless there is a very good reason, I would go with the one you have. The older Yanmars are so simple to work on. Just run some basic checks like compression etc and carry spare parts. You can get diesel engine work done almost anywhere. Many other cruisers know how and can help if you have the parts!

regards

Andrew