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Old 19-05-2014, 08:51   #1
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Farymann Diesel Starting Issue

I have a 1979 Tartan 27-2 with a Farymann A30M one cylinder diesel engine. Whenever I run the engine for a long period of time and then shut her down, she will not start for several hours. If I am just going for a day sail and only run her for a short period of time, there is absolutely no issue.

For example, I moved my boat from Ossining, NY to Oyster Bay, NY this weekend. After running for four hours down the Hudson River to Newport Marina in NJ, she would not start at all. I turned the key and pushed the button but there was no reaction at the starter motor. The following morning, she fired up fine.

I have had several mechanics look at the engine and they have all given it a clean bill of health. The starter motor has been rebuilt each winter over the past three seasons and that has still not fixed the issue. This past season, we tried to hook a jumper box directly to the starter motor and she would not turn over. I have not tried to hand crank the engine as I don't currently have a crank so perhaps that might solve the issue.

Is it possible that the engine is overheating? It does seem to get quite hot in the engine bay after running for a while. The engine is water cooled but there is no exhaust fan.

If I missed a previous thread in the forum on this issue, I apologize. Any suggestions that you may have would be appreciated. If there are any clarifications that would help diagnose the problem, please let me know!
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Old 19-05-2014, 12:14   #2
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Re: Farymann Diesel Starting Issue

Just by your description it sounds more like an electrical issue. If I read your post correctly. You're saying that after running for quite some time the engine will not spin when you press the starter button to restart it. Does the starter selenoid click? Are you gettting strong 12v to the starter motor and selenoid when you press the starter button? Is there a relay in the system that isn't working correctly? Have you checked all the ground wires for corrosion or non attachment?
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Old 19-05-2014, 12:37   #3
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Re: Farymann Diesel Starting Issue

What happened when you jumped right to the starter motor? Big spark, smoke? Any action at all?
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Old 19-05-2014, 12:52   #4
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Re: Farymann Diesel Starting Issue

I think we need a little more detail. Does the engine crank at all? If not do you hear the starter turn, buzz, grind etc.. If you can give a detailed idea of what is going on step by step it may help us try to help you figure this out.
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Old 19-05-2014, 13:01   #5
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Re: Farymann Diesel Starting Issue

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Originally Posted by ontherocks83 View Post
I think we need a little more detail. Does the engine crank at all? If not do you hear the starter turn, buzz, grind etc.. If you can give a detailed idea of what is going on step by step it may help us try to help you figure this out.
Yes, because at this point I'm thinking solenoid, pretty normal for one of those to not work when hot, but if the engine is turning over, but just not starting, then of course that's a whole other issue.
Plus what does ran a jumper cable straight to the starter mean? To the starter motor, or to it's solenoid?
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Old 19-05-2014, 15:16   #6
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Re: Farymann Diesel Starting Issue

The Usual Suspects:

Bad engine electrical ground

Disintegrating fuse and fuseholder between the start button and the starter solenoid

Bad starter button (rarely)
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Old 21-05-2014, 14:25   #7
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Re: Farymann Diesel Starting Issue

Let me try to address all of the questions and hopefully this helps!

- The starter motor was rebuilt this past winter and the starter solenoid is new.

- When I push the button and turn the key (I have to do both), nothing happens. The engine does not crank. I don't hear any noise from the starter (no crank or buzz). I have not opened the engine bay and put my ear near the engine so it is possible that the starter is trying to engage and I can't hear it.

- We attached a jumper box to the solenoid to bypass the electrical component and see if the engine would turn over. Nothing happened. That being said, this was the end of last season. I just double-checked with the gentlemen that rebuilt the starter motor/solenoid and they said that it was inoperative at that point. I'm not sure how it started up at the beginning of that day though if that was the case and had worked all season (except after running for a while). They suggested to look for a voltage drop.

- How do I rule out an electrical issue and is it possible to do this without running the engine for a while or do I need to recreate the scenario to be sure?
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Old 21-05-2014, 14:35   #8
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Re: Farymann Diesel Starting Issue

Check and clean all electrical connections in the start cct. from the battery to the starter, including the connections on the push button, the key switch and the solenoid. That is both sides of the electrical cct.
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Old 21-05-2014, 14:45   #9
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Re: Farymann Diesel Starting Issue

It's not clear what you mean when you say "jumper box". Did you jump to the motor terminal on the starter motor? After the solenoid?
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Old 21-05-2014, 14:50   #10
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Re: Farymann Diesel Starting Issue

To clarify, the jumper box to which I'm referring was a portable jump starter similar to this: BLACK & DECKER 300-Amp Portable Jump Starter-JUS300B at The Home Depot

We attached it to the terminal on the starter solenoid.
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Old 21-05-2014, 15:03   #11
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Re: Farymann Diesel Starting Issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by T27Sailor View Post

- How do I rule out an electrical issue ...
Please see reply #6.
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Old 21-05-2014, 17:06   #12
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Re: Farymann Diesel Starting Issue

Thoroughly check your ground cable for corrosion or stressed / work hardened sections that may be expanding and loosing continuity when the cable gets hot from the engine heat. Its a stretch that could be the cause but is worth checking.
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Old 21-05-2014, 17:32   #13
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Re: Farymann Diesel Starting Issue

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we tried to hook a jumper box directly to the starter motor and she would not turn over. I have not tried to hand crank the engine as I don't currently have a crank so perhaps that might solve the issue.
If you can hand crank it, but it does not spin when you put juice directly to the starter, then the problem is the starter.

If you can not hand crank it, then something is bound up.
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Old 09-06-2014, 15:23   #14
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Re: Farymann Diesel Starting Issue

I realize that it has been a few weeks but I finally had the opportunity to make some headway. I don't yet have a new hand crank for the engine so I haven't been able to check if the engine is bound up.

That being said, the ground wires have been replaced and there are now brand new connections on all of the wires between the starter and the key switch/button. I ran her this past weekend for about 30-40 minutes at just above idle. After shutting down the engine to go sailing, she wouldn't start for about 2.5 hours. After that time, she fired up without difficulty.
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Old 09-06-2014, 19:57   #15
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Re: Farymann Diesel Starting Issue

Ah interesting.

So next time after running the engine for an hour and it will not restart. Take a Big straight blade screwdriver and short between the two big screws/ nuts over the end of the solenoid. Sparks will happen but the engine should at least move.

If it does not....

Measure the voltage in the batteries. Its possible your alternator could be bad and not only not charging the batteries but using current and draining the batteries when the engine is running. Resting the batteries for an hour or two would bring the voltage up a bit and might allow the engine to start again.

A volt meter will be helpful here to see the state of charge on the battery, before starting and after running for a bit. The batteries could be bad too

BTW, the little jump start battery packs like the B&D just don't have enough amps to turn a diesel starter motor.

Edit: Oh if the engine starts using the screwdriver shorted across the big terminals, then you have a bad wire in the start circuit or the start button is bad.
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