Ethanol in fuel

[ShipOfFools]

hey guys i was told to use Ethanol free gas for a hangkai engine but i cant find any in NYC limits. Does anyone know where to buy?

[rbk]

Most premium grade gasoline is ethanol free. There are also websites that list ethanol free locations mostly in the lower 48.

[a64pilot]

Go here and see, but I’d bet in a major city like that you can’t.
https://www.pure-gas.org
I would not count on premium being ETH free.
However there is something sold in home improvement stores called Tri fuel, which is an expensive gas substitute, I don’t know any more about it other than it’s sold for little motors that ethanol messes up, and it isn’t cheap.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by rbk

Most premium grade gasoline is ethanol free. There are also websites that list ethanol free locations mostly in the lower 48.

There is no basis for this correlation in most cities. With the coming e15, I think it is more likely that you will see ethanol-free gas outlawed.


Just close the vent when you are not running and use a quality additive like Biobor EB. You'l never know the difference. It's just a matter of learning proper fuel management.

[Dsanduril]

If you must have ethanol free Google "racing gasoline." Sunoco shows a couple of outlets on Long Island and a couple of more up the Hudson. None in NYC itself. It will cost you a pretty penny, but if you really want it, and don't want a lot...

[rbk]

Originally Posted by thinwater

There is no basis for this correlation in most cities. With the coming e15, I think it is more likely that you will see ethanol-free gas outlawed.


Just close the vent when you are not running and use a quality additive like Biobor EB. You'l never know the difference. It's just a matter of learning proper fuel management.

Hahaha doubt it. Outside the lower 48 states ethanol gas is rare. Most I see is E15, don’t even know what E85 looks like. Most countries use food to feed people not run cars. And additives do not remove the ethanol, you’re just adding more detergent and a bunch of kerosene to your tank. In all honesty I see ethanol fading away as it makes no sense to burn large quantities of diesel to grow,harvest, transport (by truck or rail) and refine corn (which could be fed to people who need food) to try and save a fraction of the carbon emissions from what are usually highly efficient passenger cars, in turn reducing the time said vehicles are on the road to to premature failure further increasing the carbon footprint of ethanol. Total scam

[rbk]

https://www.pure-gas.org

Have this on my desktop but had to go looking on my phone. Lists ethanol free locations by state/province

[Cheechako]

Not sure where in the big city. All my chain saw, weed wacker, generator, mower issues disappeared when I started buying alcohol free gas. It's terrible for things that aren't run regularly. In your car that doesn't matter much. farm supply places and Union 76 stations have it around here. Premium gas is not alcohol free. The ONLY good thing alcohol added gas does is allow senators and reps to be paid $ by the corn lobby.

[rbk]

Not all but most premium gas is ethanol free. Again it depends on A) if you’re outside the USA and B)which state you’re in and what regulations they have regarding advertising of E containing fuel. For instance all gas sold in Alaska is ethanol free and most marine fuel docks in Ak only sell 91 e-free gas. Same for most countries max e15, except US and now Brazil (since they’ve been clear cutting rainforest to produce more corn and are the second largest, soon to be largest producer in the world, so trading rainforest for fuel, makes sense)

[ranger58sb]

Most premium grade fuel around here has ethanol. As is most other gas in the state, excepting some airport (general aviation) and racing gas... and a few coastal fuel docks.

Ship, if you can't find ethanol-free gas near you, there are some other things you can do. One is the additive thing, although I found the several brands that I tried were relatively useless in our previous outboard.

Another is to drain the carb and fuel lines after each use; physically drain it, and run it dry.

A third is using fresh gas; just don't keep ethanol gas longer than about 3 weeks (recycle that gas into your car or something). This one was what solved our issues with ethanol and our previous outboard.

-Chris

[Copacabana]

Originally Posted by rbk

Not all but most premium gas is ethanol free. Again it depends on A) if you’re outside the USA and B)which state you’re in and what regulations they have regarding advertising of E containing fuel. For instance all gas sold in Alaska is ethanol free and most marine fuel docks in Ak only sell 91 e-free gas. Same for most countries max e15, except US and now Brazil (since they’ve been clear cutting rainforest to produce more corn and are the second largest, soon to be largest producer in the world, so trading rainforest for fuel, makes sense)

RBK, that's just not true. Brazil is not clear cutting the Amazon to plant corn. The deforestation has been for cattle farming for the most part. All ethanol in Brazil comes from sugarcane and most is produced in the southeast region, mainly the state of São Paulo. Ethanol doesn't make sense in a lot of countries, but it does in Brazil, and for a number of reasons. First, sugarcane is very efficient for ethanol production, unlike corn. Brazil also has an excess of arable land (they are not transforming food into fuel), and the climate allows for 2 crops a year on sugarcane land (sugarcane and then another crop). Just a side note, Brazil actually has some of the best and strictest environmental laws in the world, which work quite well in the country- except the Amazon. The problem is the Amazon is so vast that it's hard to enforce the environmental laws there with human on-site surveillance (you need to fly into big farms- the region isn't serviced by many roads). This is changing with satellite imaging and, in the near future, it will be hard to cut trees there without being punished by law. Finally, Brazil has been using ethanol both in gas and also 100% ethanol for cars at the pump for about 50 years. There just doesn't seem to be a problem with it harming engines here.

[FPNC]

"Copacabana"

Thanks for the reality check from Brazil. People in USA like to demonize ethanol in fuel. In reality ethanol has been in US gasoline for many decades. I have seen plenty of MSDS sheets from the 1980's, for regular old gasoline, these sheets list ethanol at 10% maximum. It has always been a common additive to fuel.

In one boating season around the 00's, blenders tried to put up to 20% or more, ethanol in US gas. I am sure that money was the reason.

Due to many failures, Mercruiser took samples from across the country and found over 22% or more E in the fuel. This experiment failed miserably for a lot of reasons. Damage to poly plastic parts that were not designed to take that much E and also fuel injection evaporator systems that could not handle it . Also, dirty tanks that suddenly tried to 'clean' themselves.

A huge market developed for additives that save engines from evil ethanol. These businesses stoke the ethanol 'flames'.

I'm not a fan of burning high E fuel. Mileage suffers, it does not have as high a BTU as gasoline and it does not store (for very long periods) as well as pure gas. But, in a reasonable percentage, E-gas is not the absolute evil people try to make it. There is a lot more panic than problems.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by rbk

Hahaha doubt it. Outside the lower 48 states ethanol gas is rare. Most I see is E15, don’t even know what E85 looks like. Most countries use food to feed people not run cars. And additives do not remove the ethanol, you’re just adding more detergent and a bunch of kerosene to your tank. In all honesty I see ethanol fading away as it makes no sense to burn large quantities of diesel to grow,harvest, transport (by truck or rail) and refine corn (which could be fed to people who need food) to try and save a fraction of the carbon emissions from what are usually highly efficient passenger cars, in turn reducing the time said vehicles are on the road to to premature failure further increasing the carbon footprint of ethanol. Total scam

Outside the lower 48 you are partially right. Ethanol blended fuels are common in UK and Europe. Is ethanol a scam? The politics will take us far off topic, sufficient to say you have a lot of valid points and I have my own opinions, which I will keep, for now.


No, additives cannot remove ethanol. There is no need to. However, the more effective additives contain corrosion inhibitors that stop the most troubling aspect of blended fuels. Aluminum corrosion. So some are snake oil, with some detergent and petrolueum, but I have done a lot of testing, both in the lab and in the field, and some are very effective. You can home test this if you are so inclined. Unfortunately, efforts to establish standards for them by ASTM and MMA stalled because of the efforts of several well-connected vendors that feared what change might bring.



Biobor EB and Merc Quick Stor are my favorites. These guys spent the money, I'm guessing others did not.

[ShipOfFools]

Hey guys, i ended up buying E10 octane 93 from BP because i could not find a non-ethanol fuel station close to brooklyn, NY so i figured why bother. I then called a local marina to see what they advised on marine fuel and if that was any different than car fuel, they told me that ethanol was added to fuel as either a federal or state law in the usa or NY state because of emissions standards? i was quite surprised given then complaints ive seen about ethanol on u tube and this forum.

[Seymore]

Here in Savannah GA ethanol free gasoline is sold as 'marine gas'. Search on that.