Engine reviews Yanmar or Volvo

[RJMRJM]

Hi GI LOW. Forgot to mention my Arends has a trouble free YANMAR 3QM 30 engine

[MicHughV]

hands down....no disputing this...Yanmar !!

I've owned 3 sailboats in the 40' range over a 40 year period.
Two Volvo's , one Perkins, one Westerbeke, two Yanmars in that time

The Volvo's...ugh...
First off, they are bloody expensive...and as so often noted here, parts for this beast require you to cut your right arm off, mortgage the house and rob a bank....and they are high revving diesels to boot.
Yes, they ran good.... when they ran, but every once in a while some little thing would arise that became a headache. Just changing the raw water impeller was a pain in the arse.
Volvo also uses these funny rubber seals in various parts of the engine....and they will leak.
The Perkins and Westerbeke are throw backs to an earlier ice age...big, heavy, slow revving engines, I believe they orginated as tractor engines that were " marinized" ...parts for them became increasingly difficult to get.
Finally, Yanmar. Step into the 20th century.
Smooth running, simple, reliable, parts easily available.
And about half the weight of a Volvo.
Things that require maintenance are all easily accessible.
No question ...Yanmar.
The Kubota....is...I believe a "marinized" tractor engine like the Perkins and Westerbeke. This company is trying to make headwinds against Yanmar with little success.
They are not well known here in the USA.
Yanmar parts, dealers, service, is worldwide.
Like I said....if i were to repower....or even install a new engine in a homebuilt boat...it would be Yanmar !!!

[fish53]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

hands down....no disputing this...Yanmar !!

I've owned 3 sailboats in the 40' range over a 40 year period.
Two Volvo's , one Perkins, one Westerbeke, two Yanmars in that time

The Volvo's...ugh...
First off, they are bloody expensive...and as so often noted here, parts for this beast require you to cut your right arm off, mortgage the house and rob a bank....and they are high revving diesels to boot.
Yes, they ran good.... when they ran, but every once in a while some little thing would arise that became a headache. Just changing the raw water impeller was a pain in the arse.
Volvo also uses these funny rubber seals in various parts of the engine....and they will leak.
The Perkins and Westerbeke are throw backs to an earlier ice age...big, heavy, slow revving engines, I believe they orginated as tractor engines that were " marinized" ...parts for them became increasingly difficult to get.
Finally, Yanmar. Step into the 20th century.
Smooth running, simple, reliable, parts easily available.
And about half the weight of a Volvo.
Things that require maintenance are all easily accessible.
No question ...Yanmar.
The Kubota....is...I believe a "marinized" tractor engine like the Perkins and Westerbeke. This company is trying to make headwinds against Yanmar with little success.
They are not well known here in the USA.
Yanmar parts, dealers, service, is worldwide.
Like I said....if i were to repower....or even install a new engine in a homebuilt boat...it would be Yanmar !!!

I disagree about Kubota, in my opinion they are excellent engines that are supported by Kubota tractor dealers just about everywhere at a fraction of the price for Yanmar. Also the smaller engines have a wider variety of parts available, Yanmar uses Kanzaki transmissions, good luck finding one of those easily, ZF, Technodrive and PRM all use ZF keyhole bellhousings which are easily available on Kubota making transmission choices and repair easier. If you do your own engine work Kubota is far and away the better choice. I wouldn't own a Volvo again, yuck! But I do have several Listers.

[redsky49]

In the US you will find Beta at the major boat shows. I am not aware of any sailboat production builder that uses them as original equipment. Their niche seems to be repower at this time.
Engines are rated in various ways. My Yanmar can be rated at 50, 54 or 55 hp, depending on method. Not deceptive, and allows you to compare apples to apples, if you pay attention.

[redsky49]

And I ordered my Yanmar with a ZF transmission when I repowered 14 years ago.

[fish53]

Originally Posted by redsky49

And I ordered my Yanmar with a ZF transmission when I repowered 14 years ago.

Yes on a 50hp engine you were able to get a ZF but it's much different on the smaller ones that would use a ZF keyhole bolt pattern as I referenced, apples to oranges I'm afraid.

[fish53]

Originally Posted by redsky49

In the US you will find Beta at the major boat shows. I am not aware of any sailboat production builder that uses them as original equipment. Their niche seems to be repower at this time.
Engines are rated in various ways. My Yanmar can be rated at 50, 54 or 55 hp, depending on method. Not deceptive, and allows you to compare apples to apples, if you pay attention.

Almost all diesel engines have multiple ratings, usually pleasure, intermittent and continuous for marine use.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by redsky49

In the US you will find Beta at the major boat shows. I am not aware of any sailboat production builder that uses them as original equipment. Their niche seems to be repower at this time.
Engines are rated in various ways. My Yanmar can be rated at 50, 54 or 55 hp, depending on method. Not deceptive, and allows you to compare apples to apples, if you pay attention.

Over the years I've watched how the Hamble Water Ferry guys manage their fleet, which is powered by I think 30hp diesels. They used to swear by Beta -- very reliable, easy to work on, relatively inexpensive, cheap parts. They put on huge hours every year and have to repower every few years. But these days they are using something different -- some no-name, cheap Chinese diesels. They say that they last almost as long, are almost as reliable, and cost half as much. They get roughly 15,000 hours out of them and then just throw them away, and say they come out way ahead.


For whatever it is worth. I wouldn't have one on my boat, though.

[CarinaPDX]

There is still a little room for fudging with horsepower ratings. My old Saab was introduced as a 16hp engine, which magically became an 18hp engine. All they did was measure the output at a higher rpm, one that the manual recommended to not operate at for long periods. Nice. The Volvo D2-40 is rated at 39.6hp (crankshaft), which it reaches at somewhere around 3400-3600rpm; the stated operational range is 2800-3200rpm. The power curves end at 3200rpm so difficult to tell when it reaches the rated output but since that is at an rpm that is not intended for continuous operation I'm not sure it matters - it is just for puffery. A bit silly for adding about 1hp.



Greg

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

hands down....no disputing this...Yanmar !!

I've owned 3 sailboats in the 40' range over a 40 year period.
Two Volvo's , one Perkins, one Westerbeke, two Yanmars in that time

The Volvo's...ugh...
First off, they are bloody expensive...and as so often noted here, parts for this beast require you to cut your right arm off, mortgage the house and rob a bank....and they are high revving diesels to boot.
Yes, they ran good.... when they ran, but every once in a while some little thing would arise that became a headache. Just changing the raw water impeller was a pain in the arse.
Volvo also uses these funny rubber seals in various parts of the engine....and they will leak.
The Perkins and Westerbeke are throw backs to an earlier ice age...big, heavy, slow revving engines, I believe they orginated as tractor engines that were " marinized" ...parts for them became increasingly difficult to get.
Finally, Yanmar. Step into the 20th century.
Smooth running, simple, reliable, parts easily available.
And about half the weight of a Volvo.
Things that require maintenance are all easily accessible.
No question ...Yanmar.
The Kubota....is...I believe a "marinized" tractor engine like the Perkins and Westerbeke. This company is trying to make headwinds against Yanmar with little success.
They are not well known here in the USA.
Yanmar parts, dealers, service, is worldwide.
Like I said....if i were to repower....or even install a new engine in a homebuilt boat...it would be Yanmar !!!

Are you suggesting that all Yanmar engines are purpose built marine engines? Also perhaps you didn't realise that Brisbane Australia is not in fact part of the USA. Here Kubota engines are available everywhere, they power a myriad of industrial and marine equipment which results in easy access to parts and service at reasonable prices.

[CarinaPDX]

Uncle Bob: Kubotas are indeed very popular in the US as well - they are not at all difficult to find in industrial and <gasp> marine applications, as well as the small tractors and other equipment. I think most of us here know that Oz is not part of the US, unlike Canada .

MicHughV: As I alluded to earlier, the old Volvo-manufactured engines which were so common in boats built in the 1970's and 1980's, and which were somewhat less than lovable, are completely different than the Shibaura-manufactured, Perkins-distributed, Volvo-marinized engines of today. So it would really help to know which were the source of your rant. The only issue that I am aware of with the newer engines is the MDI black box; otherwise they don't seem to have had consistently reported problems. Which engines were the source of your displeasure?

Greg

[fish53]

I have a Kubota D1005 in one of my boats that I marinized from a new industrial engine and it's cost was somewhere just over 6K with all the bits and pieces. I can run down the road about ten miles and buy parts at a tenth of what the same or similar parts cost at a marine supplier. You'd have a hard time doing this with a Yanmar and a Beta or Nanni would have cost close to 12K.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

There is still a little room for fudging with horsepower ratings. My old Saab was introduced as a 16hp engine, which magically became an 18hp engine. All they did was measure the output at a higher rpm, one that the manual recommended to not operate at for long periods. Nice. The Volvo D2-40 is rated at 39.6hp (crankshaft), which it reaches at somewhere around 3400-3600rpm; the stated operational range is 2800-3200rpm. The power curves end at 3200rpm so difficult to tell when it reaches the rated output but since that is at an rpm that is not intended for continuous operation I'm not sure it matters - it is just for puffery. A bit silly for adding about 1hp.



Greg

Yeah, but I need to retract my previous remark about horsepower. A64 is right -- I now think he was talking about not how horsepower is MEASURED, but how it is RATED, which are two entirely different things.


Yes, the same engine might be RATED at very different horsepower levels based on the type of service. So the same engine rated 75hp for commercial use might be capable of producing real 100hp for pleasure, so, short-term, intermittent duty. The governor may simply be set to prevent achieving the revs needed to make the higher figure, or the maker may simply set an operational limit for the heavier duty, but the engine is otherwise the same.

[fish53]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

Are you suggesting that all Yanmar engines are purpose built marine engines? Also perhaps you didn't realise that Brisbane Australia is not in fact part of the USA. Here Kubota engines are available everywhere, they power a myriad of industrial and marine equipment which results in easy access to parts and service at reasonable prices.

You can buy complete rebuilt Kubota engines from farm supply places for around $2500.00 for 25hp range and places like Craigs list and Ebay always have a large selection of used Kubotas. I once bought a Z500 that looked and ran like new for $800.00. The issue here is whether or not you have the skills and desire to work on mechanical stuff or if you have wheelbarrows of money to hand over to a boatyard.

[MicHughV]

My first boat was a homebuilt Roberts 38 (early 80's).

Though I had several diesel manufacturers to pick from, I chose Volvo, as at the time they had some engine models with a 7 degree downward sloping transmission and this solved a lot of installation problems for me to get around frames, etc.
After a period of time the 1st Volvo I installed, ended up giving me a lot of problems, so I replaced it with another Volvo...also because of the downward 7 degree angle.
I owned that boat for around 15 years and grew to hate those engines so after the boat sold, I swore I would never have another Volvo diesel engine again.

After that boat sold, I did myself a big favor and studied diesel engines for a long period.

I had several boats after that, with Perkins, Westerbeke and the Yanmar engines.

I understand that choosing an engine is a " personal" emotion subject to many aspects. One must also consider a variety of issues....weight, size, horsepower, etc, etc, too many things to discuss here.

Throw in the latest " turbo-charged" diesel engines and it becomes quite the smorgasbord.

Many areas also offer " reconditioned " diesels of many makes.

The reality is that most people chose an engine for their boat based on the size of their checkbook as diesel engines are pricey.
I can guarantee that if you have more than 1 diesel to choose from, you will take a good long hard look at the bottom line.

The engines is but only one factor. The fuel filtrations system for any marine diesel must be the best you can install. Once you are cruising to off the beaten path destinations, the source of diesel fuel becomes questionable. Aside from having the best filtration you can buy, you also need to become proficient at maintaining them. Besides bad fuel, the is ALWAYS the very real danger of water in the fuel.

You can also consider having both an electric and engine driven fuel delivery system. One must also consider that a marine diesel circulates fuel back to the tank, so keeping your tank sludge free should rank up there. Unlike a tractor, a yacht bounces around quite a bit and anything in the tank will soon find its way to the filter.

Many modern diesels are " self-bleeding" and if you ever had to bleed an injector system in the high seas, you will quickly come to appreciate this.

Finally, when you are out on the high seas, you better have an armload of spares, because you will be the sole mechanic to fix anything that can....and likely will break at the least appropriate time.
In this respect, I found the Yanmar to be user friendly.

The Kubota engine is also available in my neck of the woods, but I still prefer the Yanmar for many reasons.