Engine reviews Yanmar or Volvo

[Jim Cate]

To reiterate some of the upthread posts: most of the basic engines are industrial/utility bases with marinization bits added by the "marine" engine vendor. All of those engines are sturdy and long lived if well maintained.

The add-on marinization parts are sadly not so reliable, and are the likely failure points for all marques of marine engines. So, one's evaluation of engines should pay close attention to these bits, and to the recommended service regimes. There are some striking differences. For instance, Yanmar seems to view the exhaust riser as a consumable, and recommends fairly frequent replacement... and it is damn expensive. In contrast, our Nanni/Kubota engine is still running with the same part as when we bought the boat 16 years ago, several thousand hours later. It has never clogged or needed cleaning. Compare to the frequent reports of issues with Yanmar exhaust bits clogging and corroding out.

I'm sure that there are similar issues with all these engines, so some research will be well rewarded.

And re parts availability for Yanmar and Volvo in remote places: Yes, if one looks around many third world ports, one will see signs advertising local dealers. But, all too often we've seen folks told "not in stock here, will have to order" or some such thing, and the delay and expense of importing parts is shocking, especially when added on to the exorbitant initial price. Part of cruising, I suppose, but not a good one!

Enough! Good luck to all with engine decisions... for the most part, they are all damn good donks, but when problems arise, all are not equal!

Jim

[glynhome]

For my part I can share the following experiences;
I found my last Yanmar to be a bit”Heath Robinson” with bits bolted on all over the place and with a back to front water pump">raw water pump. One day the engine sounded like it was about to blow, to cut a long and expensive story short, I found that the low pressure fuel pump diaphragm had failed and dumped 6 litres of diesel into the sump, something the folks at Yanmar said was impossible. I now have a Volvo Penta D2 55 for the past 6 years it seems to be more of an integrated piece of engineering and performs well but I don’t like the 10litres of oil that the sump takes on every oil change.

[Jim Cate]

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ts-214209.html

An understandable issue, but consider that with the larger capacity comes a longer change interval. Engines that are derived from commercial/utility blocks often have larger oil capacities. I believe that this derives from the desire of commercial users to have longer intervals between changes.

Of course, for the yottie that only does < 100 hours/year, the "change every x hours or yearly" clause comes into effect, and the advantage of larger capacity vanishes. Oh well, no free lunch...

Our Kubota based Nanni uses 9 liters, change every 200 hours. Works for us as we seem to average around 300 hr/year.

Jim

[Fidsplice]

I repowered my Farr 1020 a little while ago. Had the original Volvo 2002, on which the head had corroded beyond repair. Decided either Yanmar or Volvo. Volvo D1-20 or D1-30. Yanmar 3YM20C or 3YM30AE. Got complete install quotes (it's the extras that blow the cost about), and worked out the issues involved in installing.


Yanmar was cheaper and slightly more powerful. Volvo was quieter and slightly more fuel efficient. Have a spreadsheet if anyone is interested



The clincher was the install. Did careful measurements of the engines and my engine cavity. Enough head room? etc. etc. For the Volvo I could use my existing mounts with a relatively inexpensive adapter plate. Yanmar, cut out the old mounts, fibreglass in the new, and worst of all, extend my engine compartment by 50mm under the companionway. In the end, installed a D1-30 (wanted that little extra power) which to all intents and purposes was just as good as the Yanmar 3YM30AE but $2000 cheaper, and a much easier install.


I suppose all engines are pretty good these days. I agree Volvo spares are more, but I'm hoping I don't need to worry about that for some considerable time. For me, in the end, it was the complexity of the install that was the deciding issue (and cost). I would have been happy with either manufacturer, or indeed, any of the popular brands.


My advice? Carefully measure your space, the engine, your access and your mountings. That'll likely get you a very short list. Then, which installer do you have the best relationship with.


Incidentally, have carried over my Kiwiprop feathering prop which I think is outstanding. Had it for 7 years.


Cheers,
Chris.

[RJMRJM]

Hi Mar De Lea I have sailed my Arends 33 for 20 years and I also keep her at Manly in Brisbane If you dont mind contacting me I would lile to compare some notes with you .
My email is rjmrjm@aapt.net.au Cheers Ron

[a64pilot]

A few Yanmar exhaust risers are cupro-nickel. Mine is 32 yrs old and according to Mack Boring should last “forever”, many are apparently not. I have no idea why, would seem to be a no brainer, especially as often the thing that ruins a motor is exhaust riser failure.

I believe a lot of the reason that some love Volvo and some hate them is that Volvo often buys other’s engines and paints them green, those seem to be good, reliable engines, some that Volvo seem to manufacture themselves don’t seem to be.

More oil capacity is better, often it’s done so that you can run an engine hard without overheating the oil, often it’s done for a turbo, because a turbo is usually oil cooled and can dump a remarkable amount of heat into the oil seeing as how the thing sits in the exhaust stream and the hot side often at or above 1000F.
Most Commercial Diesels even smaller ones have oil capacity measured in gallons, not quarts.

There are many ways to measure HP, the Japanese not to be outdone have their own way, called JIS. Japanese Industrial Standard of memory serves, Japanese horses are apparently smaller.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepower

[fish53]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

A few Yanmar exhaust risers are cupro-nickel. Mine is 32 yrs old and according to Mack Boring should last “forever”, many are apparently not. I have no idea why, would seem to be a no brainer, especially as often the thing that ruins a motor is exhaust riser failure.

I believe a lot of the reason that some love Volvo and some hate them is that Volvo often buys other’s engines and paints them green, those seem to be good, reliable engines, some that Volvo seem to manufacture themselves don’t seem to be.

More oil capacity is better, often it’s done so that you can run an engine hard without overheating the oil, often it’s done for a turbo, because a turbo is usually oil cooled and can dump a remarkable amount of heat into the oil seeing as how the thing sits in the exhaust stream and the hot side often at or above 1000F.
Most Commercial Diesels even smaller ones have oil capacity measured in gallons, not quarts.

There are many ways to measure HP, the Japanese not to be outdone have their own way, called JIS. Japanese Industrial Standard of memory serves, Japanese horses are apparently smaller.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepower

You've basically described the difference between automotive diesels intended for tractors, trucks and such and heavy continuous duty industrial diesels, the later makes a better marine engine in general. Also a horsepower is a horsepower what you've described is a rating such as the old British BSS 649/1958 or the German DIN which is simply the conditions an engines horsepower is rated at such as with or without some or all accessories. This is why I have a Lister Petter in my boat, heavy, continuous duty industrial diesel good for 20,000 plus hours.

[Suijin]

I’ve never owned a Volvo but I’ve also never met a marine mechanic that recommended them over other brands. And I’ve also met a few mechanics that absolutely despise them, FWIW.

[a64pilot]

A Horsepower is a Horsepower, but the definition of a Horsepower can differ greatly.
If you want make accurate comparisons, ensure the engines use the same definition of what a Horsepower is, and how it is measured.

It is entirely possible for the same engine to be both 50 and 75 Horsepower, again depending on the definition of Horsepower and how or where it’s measured.

[Sailor 99]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

A Horsepower is a Horsepower, but the definition of a Horsepower can differ greatly.
If you want make accurate comparisons, ensure the engines use the same definition of what a Horsepower is, and how it is measured.

It is entirely possible for the same engine to be both 50 and 75 Horsepower, again depending on the definition of Horsepower and how or where it’s measured.

I don't see how this is possible. My motor clearly says on it that it is 49.8kw which is 66.7 hp even though Beta says it is a 75 hp Unless they put a turbo on it how are they going to change the HP?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by CarlF

You won't have any shorter life from a turbo Yanmar or Volvo than the same engine without turbo. These are fairly low boost and designed as part of the engine from the start. Turbo problems aren't even in the top 10 problem areas of a Yanmars. In 20 years and three boats with Yanmars (the current at 2500 hours), I've never had a turbo problem or problem caused by the turbo.

Be also careful to separate reports of problems with the big sportsfishing boat diesels from problems with small sailboat diesels. The market for the former is trying to squeeze as much HP as they can into the engine room space available. The engines just aren't designed to run 5000 hours.

And as mentioned, life and reliability of modern diesels is mostly determined by the captain. Always run for at least an hour to get it up to temp. Minimize time below 60% RPM or above 90%. (although an occasional run up to 100% to burn off carbon is good). But incredibly, the charter boats have thousands of hours put on by charterers who do everything wrong and the engines are still running just fine at the five year turnover. Tough little things.

One reason to favor Yanmar is that there are more mechanics who know them very well. You'll occasionally need a professional mechanic and you don't want to pay for his education by learning on your engine.

Yanmar and Perkins, over 25 years.


Both bulletproof. Maybe I've just been lucky, but neither in all that time has ever required any significant repair.


I can't say much about mechanics for either make because I've practically never used one. Any problems I've had with them was of my own making (and all fuel system related), and were cured by me.


I would echo the comments above about turbos. Turbos increase efficiency, reduce noise, and increase the range of power available out of a given engine block -- allowing a smaller engine to be used at a healthier power level. I wouldn't have a diesel without a turbo.


Three particular things I like about Yanmars:


1. All the vital moving parts are driven by GEARS, not by chains or belts. Even the raw water pump is gear driven! This is super cool -- I haven't seen a car with all gear drive since a pre-WWII Alfa Romeo Grand Prix car I worked on once.


2. No lift pump -- the fuel pump, a reliable roller cell job, is built into the injection pump.


3. Yanmar designed them from the ground up for marine use (at least the 4JH), and they are uniquely well marinized. The marinization parts (heat exchanger, raw water pump) are integrated into the basic engine design. this is a big plus.





The Perkins -- also bulletproof. When we bought that boat the hour meter was broken at 9500 hours or something. It must have had 15,000 or maybe even 20,000 on it when we sold it. Ran like a top; never a lick of trouble. Oozed and spewed oil all over the place, though, like all English machinery.




Friends have had great service from their old Volvo.




I think there are actually very few bad diesel engines.

[Cloroxbottle]

Originally Posted by MarDeLea

I am thinking of repowering. I would appreciate reviews of Yanmar and Volvo. These engines are readily available in Brisbane Australia. Which to choose? Comments about reliability, after sale service, and parts needed.

Beta marine

Yanmar / Perkins

Long shaft outboard

Sails

A team of trained dolphins harnessed to the front of your vessel as if it were a dog sled

Oars

Volvo

[GILow]

Originally Posted by MarDeLea

Thx for options. Is Kubota readily available in Brisbane area?

Yes, practically everywhere in Oz.

Originally Posted by MarDeLea

I have a Arends 33...

Ah ha! You have a SUPERB boat! Photos, PLEASE! I am serious. The Arends interiors were exceptionally good. It is my dream to make my Swanson look like an Arends inside.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

A Horsepower is a Horsepower, but the definition of a Horsepower can differ greatly.
If you want make accurate comparisons, ensure the engines use the same definition of what a Horsepower is, and how it is measured.

It is entirely possible for the same engine to be both 50 and 75 Horsepower, again depending on the definition of Horsepower and how or where it’s measured.

This might have been true when marketing gross horsepower figures were used, but gross horsepower (measured with no accessories, and probably exaggerated for good measure) has been dead for decades. Boat engines are all quoted in DIN or JIS horsepower, which are exactly the same, 735.5 watts, and are always quoted based on horsepower delivered at the crankshaft.



Shaft horsepower is measured after the marine gear, but shaft horsepower figures are not used in boat engine specifications, that I have ever seen. So a 50hp Yanmar is going to deliver the exact same maximum power as a 50hp Volvo, but only for manufacturing tolerances and any possible marketing exaggeration which might take place, not indeed for how the power is measured.





Now another thing is that the same engine block may be tuned to give very different levels of power. The Yanmar JH3 block was sold with power varying from 50 to 140 hp as far as I know, but those are real differences in the amount of power produced, not differences in how the power is measured.

[RJMRJM]

Hi G I LOW I had a 42 ft. Swanson for 10 years it was built by Ron Swansons forman for his own use and sailed the Pacific for 12 years before I bought it. When I stopped chartering and moved to a smaller boat I bought an Arends 33 which is a Swanson as you would know and in many ways the layout of both boats is similar in many ways. I knew one of our fellow contributors on this site also from Brisbane who sailed his Arends SKAFFIES ROMANCE around the world a few years ago. They are a super comfortable cruising boat.