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Old 16-11-2013, 09:53   #1
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Engine pan/motor mount concern CS36

Hello forum. This is my first post-just joined today, but been reading and learning for past year or so. I am beyond thinking about, but not yet offer ready on my first sailboat. Long time dream kind of idea. A bit about me : to give you some context for my question. I am a civil engineer, presently in IT, very handy, so very comfortable with mechanical, electrical and wood work - though have no fibreglass skills.

I'm interested in a specific CS36 currently on the market. Seen it a few times, look lots of pictures, so now trying to understand exactly what I'm getting myself into. Attached is a picture of the starboard side, rear motor mount. The engine drives a vdrive, so belts etc are at the back. I'm told the Vetus m4.17 is 5 years old presently with 700 hours on the meter. It looks clean and well cared for - a bit of belt dust, but no leaks anywhere and underneath is clean.

My concern: the rear motor mounts are not installed correctly - two major problems with each. The one pictured (foreground is starboard rear)only has one bolt I assume because the original westerbeke mounts had a different layout. Also a couple chunks of steel have been bolted on to allow the mounts to fit - in essence cantilevering the weight/vibration of the motor over to the mount, and that mount only has one screw into the stringer. The weight of the engine hangs from the big bolt, the steel transfers it over to the flexible mount - the engine does not rest on the mount.

Assuming the motor is correctly aligned through the trans and the vdrive to the shaft ( the boat is presently on land so have not seen it run - so alignment is likely suspect) then I assume the motor mounts on the vetus are lower than the original engine, so there is not enough clearance for the mount body to fit under the engine mount itself. The installer made up the steel bits out of some scrap on hand and threw it together. Both rear mounts are almost identical. Rust etc is the least of my concern! I don't have picture of the front mounts, difficult to see, and I think the vdrive is the original - now painted yellow- so the big mounting bracket and bolts look very solid there. My sense is this motor is held in place by the fronts, and the vdrive - and the rear motor mounts come out for a nice ride. Worried about what happens to the shaft, seals and bearings if the engine moves around.

Thoughts on solution: 2 ideas - this is the part where I need your collective wisdom and experience.

1). There is little clearance between bottom of engine mount and top of fibreglass bed/stringer. If a second mount was used on each side, and a properly finished piece of steel angle run between them, the motor could be hung from that. That would resolve the obvious cantilever bend problem, but would still result in a vibrating weight being hung from a threaded bolt.

2) does anyone know what is under the fibreglass of the the engine bed stringers on a cs36? Found lots of references to solid mahogany timbers being glassed in place to provide the foundation on other rebuilds. If that's true for cs36 then the right answer might be to cut the fibreglass and rabbet/notch the wood, glass over the notch, thus provide a solid shelf for the mount to sit on properly. Looking at the picture, if that stringer is solid wood under the fibreglass the there is lots of wood there. A 2 inch deep notch would not sacrifice the structural integrity, and would still allow lots of depth to take the lag screw...As long as the timber is solid inside. I'd expect a canadian built boat would have solid spruce of pine in there.

Obviously I know I can walk away- but so far the rest of the boat is in good shape for an 1984. So my goal is to understand some options as I consider an offer. Thanks folks. Bryan
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Old 16-11-2013, 12:12   #2
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Both of your solutions seem perfectly viable to me. And considering it's made 500 hrs already, if imagine you've got some time to think about it while using the boat.
I would personally go for the bridge connection, the engine is a lightweight for the size bolt the foot can accept.
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Old 17-11-2013, 05:44   #3
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Re: Engine pan/motor mount concern CS36

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Bryan.

http://www.closereach.com/csoa/cs36.htm

http://www.closereach.com/csoa/index.html
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Old 17-11-2013, 07:37   #4
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Re: Engine pan/motor mount concern CS36

Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanW View Post
Hello forum. This is my first post-just joined today, but been reading and learning for past year or so. I am beyond thinking about, but not yet offer ready on my first sailboat. Long time dream kind of idea. A bit about me : to give you some context for my question. I am a civil engineer, presently in IT, very handy, so very comfortable with mechanical, electrical and wood work - though have no fibreglass skills.

I'm interested in a specific CS36 currently on the market. Seen it a few times, look lots of pictures, so now trying to understand exactly what I'm getting myself into. Attached is a picture of the starboard side, rear motor mount. The engine drives a vdrive, so belts etc are at the back. I'm told the Vetus m4.17 is 5 years old presently with 700 hours on the meter. It looks clean and well cared for - a bit of belt dust, but no leaks anywhere and underneath is clean.

My concern: the rear motor mounts are not installed correctly - two major problems with each. The one pictured (foreground is starboard rear)only has one bolt I assume because the original westerbeke mounts had a different layout. Also a couple chunks of steel have been bolted on to allow the mounts to fit - in essence cantilevering the weight/vibration of the motor over to the mount, and that mount only has one screw into the stringer. The weight of the engine hangs from the big bolt, the steel transfers it over to the flexible mount - the engine does not rest on the mount.

Assuming the motor is correctly aligned through the trans and the vdrive to the shaft ( the boat is presently on land so have not seen it run - so alignment is likely suspect) then I assume the motor mounts on the vetus are lower than the original engine, so there is not enough clearance for the mount body to fit under the engine mount itself. The installer made up the steel bits out of some scrap on hand and threw it together. Both rear mounts are almost identical. Rust etc is the least of my concern! I don't have picture of the front mounts, difficult to see, and I think the vdrive is the original - now painted yellow- so the big mounting bracket and bolts look very solid there. My sense is this motor is held in place by the fronts, and the vdrive - and the rear motor mounts come out for a nice ride. Worried about what happens to the shaft, seals and bearings if the engine moves around.

Thoughts on solution: 2 ideas - this is the part where I need your collective wisdom and experience.

1). There is little clearance between bottom of engine mount and top of fibreglass bed/stringer. If a second mount was used on each side, and a properly finished piece of steel angle run between them, the motor could be hung from that. That would resolve the obvious cantilever bend problem, but would still result in a vibrating weight being hung from a threaded bolt.

2) does anyone know what is under the fibreglass of the the engine bed stringers on a cs36? Found lots of references to solid mahogany timbers being glassed in place to provide the foundation on other rebuilds. If that's true for cs36 then the right answer might be to cut the fibreglass and rabbet/notch the wood, glass over the notch, thus provide a solid shelf for the mount to sit on properly. Looking at the picture, if that stringer is solid wood under the fibreglass the there is lots of wood there. A 2 inch deep notch would not sacrifice the structural integrity, and would still allow lots of depth to take the lag screw...As long as the timber is solid inside. I'd expect a canadian built boat would have solid spruce of pine in there.

Obviously I know I can walk away- but so far the rest of the boat is in good shape for an 1984. So my goal is to understand some options as I consider an offer. Thanks folks. Bryan
CS used solid fiberglass u-shaped beams as stringers for the engine bed. There are some SS plate inserts, or steel on some boats, in the laminate. The stringers are hollow and have no wood to rot.. You can drill & tap, or as was done on ours, drill round pocket holes in the side of the stringers for access to proper nuts and washers...

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Old 17-11-2013, 16:42   #5
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Thanks gents. Great feedback and fastening options. Bryan
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